Another Exo vs Kifaru thread...

[BRTreedogs]

I’d like to hear more about your experience with the K4 + S2H. That pack has made me want to try to retrofit one onto my ARK. That ARK frame has been money for me. Lumbar pad and hip belt have been hands down the best I’ve tried. (Duplex Lite, K3, two different SGs, and MR, Kuiu ect). Is the K4 better than or equal to in the waist belt/lumbar/load lifter fit category? That’s been my main hesitation on dropping the coin on one.


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IMO it takes longer to break in an Exo because they are using a firmer and more durable foam.
Kifaru is like the Solomon quest, good out of the box but not long term.
My duplex lite fit my hips better in the beginning, but I completely wore the foam out in 1.5 years.
The 2nd hunt season the lumbar pad was so worn out the stays were digging into my back, it was the worst pack out I’ve had so far. I was trying to shove extra layers in there every etc.

Exo seems more of a buy, break in and just work. But ultimately it’s fit, body shape as well. I’ve upgraded my exos but I’ve never felt like I needed to huck it in a dumpster and go buy an new pack mid season, but I guess it could always happen.

If I was to run kifaru again I’d buy all new, straps, hip belt and lumbar foam before every season. And to top it off they just always say, that’s normal use and wear now.

 

[isleofGough]

Having purchased new dual density foam pads from both Exo and Kifaru, I find it hard to believe that one is less durable than the other.

 

[guitarpreston]

I believe the Ark has different foam than the duplex light. The DL I had (Jakes old one I think) was pretty compressed but the Ark seems more dense.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Having purchased new dual density foam pads from both Exo and Kifaru, I find it hard to believe that one is less durable than the other.

Believe whatever you want.
I’ve used them both extensively in the mountains.

One of them was worn out and a failure after 2 shed and 1 hunting season.

But I can see how from you’re couch they would appear similar.

 

[isleofGough]

If 300 miles per pack is a couch, you might be right. The original Ark shipped with single density foam but the replacement foam is a more comfortable dual density.

 

[fatlander]

IMO it takes longer to break in an Exo because they are using a firmer and more durable foam.
Kifaru is like the Solomon quest, good out of the box but not long term.
My duplex lite fit my hips better in the beginning, but I completely wore the foam out in 1.5 years.
The 2nd hunt season the lumbar pad was so worn out the stays were digging into my back, it was the worst pack out I’ve had so far. I was trying to shove extra layers in there every etc.

Exo seems more of a buy, break in and just work. But ultimately it’s fit, body shape as well. I’ve upgraded my exos but I’ve never felt like I needed to huck it in a dumpster and go buy an new pack mid season, but I guess it could always happen.

If I was to run kifaru again I’d buy all new, straps, hip belt and lumbar foam before every season. And to top it off they just always say, that’s normal use and wear now.

I had a similar experience. I wore out the padding in my duplex light harness and belt pretty quickly, and the replacement was already showing “age” when I sent it down the road. I’d say I have very safely north of 500 miles with 50+ pounds in my k4 and I’ve noticed no degradation.


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[guitarpreston]

If 300 miles per pack is a couch, you might be right. The original Ark shipped with single density foam but the replacement foam is a more comfortable dual density.

If you’re only putting 300 miles on your couch that’s rookie level. Get YouTube premium and watch some hunt films!

 

[isleofGough]

With the dual density kifaru pad being available maybe a year, it is curious that you can claim to know the durability. The tactical light is an older model and newer models generally have better foam. I walk a bit over 2000 miles per year, and many of those miles are not with heavily loaded backpacks, so I'm not sure what others are doing to get comparative information on lumbar pad durability. Fortunately, both Exo and Kifaru offer pad replacements.

As an aside: I use cut down exo k4 foam pad on my seek outside (firm) and HPG prairie belt with Umlindi (soft), and they improved comfort. The Kifaru Ark foam was a bit too thick for that.

 

[mtnbound]

I’d like to hear more about your experience with the K4 + S2H. That pack has made me want to try to retrofit one onto my ARK. That ARK frame has been money for me. Lumbar pad and hip belt have been hands down the best I’ve tried. (Duplex Lite, K3, two different SGs, and MR, Kuiu ect). Is the K4 better than or equal to in the waist belt/lumbar/load lifter fit category? That’s been my main hesitation on dropping the coin on one.


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I have the K4 and the Teratorn pack, and it is great. I have been using it as my all-around pack, and it's bigger than I need most of the time, since I have been successfully using a EXO5000 for several years. I have found the Teratorn to be wider than my 5000 pack, but it's not a big deal to me. The configuration is easier to access gear than my 5000, but that will also depend on how you pack it. The big stretchy pockets are well-designed, and even with some reduced shoulder mobility, I can get into them with the pack on.
Using the bag to shoot off can be a little better than using my 5000, but because of its size, you do have to keep a certain amount of gear stuffed into it to work in a prone position. The pack is big, and unless one actually needs a 7000ci pack, most are probably better off with a 5000.
I used an EXO 4800 attached to a Kifaru tactical frame for several years because the previous EXO frames kept sliding down on me. I have no experience with the new ARK frame, but I feel my old Duplex frame's hip belt stays put slightly better than my K4's.

 

[guitarpreston]

My k3 4800 comes in today! Pretty stoked on that I think I’ve got enough spare straps

 

[guitarpreston]

Haven’t fully loaded it down yet but initial impressions on the ark3 4800 combo are quite positive, very pleased with bag layout.

Thanks @Hoghead for the bag!

 

[Marbles]

The more I dig into it and read, the more I am starting to lean towards the bedlam purely because I know the Ark works for me where theres a variable with the K4. If I didnt already have this pack it would be different.

The S2H bag looks sweet but giant and I try to stay out of late season cold for now.

The K4 is a great pack, but having something that works in hand is a strong argument not to change.

If you can afford to play, grab a K4 and try it out. Either return it or eat a little and sell if you like the Kifaru better. If that sounds like too much hassle, then stick with what you know.

If you’re only putting 300 miles on your couch that’s rookie level. Get YouTube premium and watch some hunt films!

I read his post as 3,000 miles because my brain apparently didn't think anyone would consider 300 miles more than a break in.

I'm on my original K4 foam and 3 years in. The pack has seen many 100+ pound training hikes with the heaviest load being 150 pounds. Break in was 100 miles with 55 to 110 pounds loaded. 130 pounds is pretty comfortable, at 150 the K4 foam struggles and it is a game of tightening the straps all the time. Unfortunately that pack only has around 45 miles loaded with meat (to open myself up to mockery for being a bad hunter).

The K3 foam struggled at 110-120 pounds when new. Of course, when I had K3 my body also struggled more at that weight, so hard to say how much of the struggle was just due to my own softness and not the foams.

 

[isleofGough]

"anyone would consider 300 miles more than a break in."
According to your posts, you hike with heavy loads "2-4" months per year with 130 lbs. (great to have so much vacation time) Assuming you hike four hours every day including Sundays and average 2.5 mph (unlikely) that is less than 1000 miles per year with heavy loads. The dual density kifaru foam, which has been out only about a year, is more durable than their older foam, according to their website.

Assuming you hiked half of that time with an Exo k4 and half with a Kifaru Ark frame- that is 500 miles each. How are you getting your thousands of miles for a comparison?

If you are, congratulations too you, but you are in a very small minority and probably are not representative of foam durability for others. If the small cost to replace the foam is an insurmountable issue, I'm sorry that is the case.

 

[Marbles]

"anyone would consider 300 miles more than a break in."
According to your posts, you hike with heavy loads "2-4" months per year with 130 lbs. (great to have so much vacation time) Assuming you hike four hours every day including Sundays and average 2.5 mph (unlikely) that is less than 1000 miles per year with heavy loads. The dual density kifaru foam, which has been out only about a year, is more durable than their older foam, according to their website.

Assuming you hiked half of that time with an Exo k4 and half with a Kifaru Ark frame- that is 500 miles each. How are you getting your thousands of miles for a comparison?

If you are, congratulations too you, but you are in a very small minority and probably are not representative of foam durability for others. If the small cost to replace the foam is an insurmountable issue, I'm sorry that is the case.

I did not say all loads were heavy. Also, I said I had the pack for 3 years. Nor did I say I personally had 1000s of miles, my point was 300 miles isn't very much, to the extent that in context my brain added a 0 to make the number impressive, again, I never claimed to have 3k miles on the pack.

Kifaru's foam may be great (or even better than K4), I certainly cannot say. But, you haven't convinced me that you can actually say it is equal to that used in K4 with authority.

Also, have you never taken your kids to the playground and walked in circles with a pack for a few hours?

 

[madcalfe]

If I was to run kifaru again I’d buy all new, straps, hip belt and lumbar foam before every season. And to top it off they just always say, that’s normal use and wear now.

I concur kifaru, and stone glacier foams sucks and wears out quick when you’re actually packing some weight. I wouldn’t waste money in buying new straps, just buy better foam and do it yourself

 

[isleofGough]

I cannot speak to the durability of the tactical light foam, but Kifaru changed that on the shoulder pads and lumbar pad with the Ark frame. I also do not know if the K4 or Ark lumbar pad foam is more durable with 1000's of miles. In my limited experience, both are durable for my needs and more durable than some of the boots I wear. The advantage of Kifaru and Exo over other pack companies is that they sell the foam replacements for reasonable costs.

 

[Read1t48]

I concur kifaru, and stone glacier foams sucks and wears out quick when you’re actually packing some weight. I wouldn’t waste money in buying new straps, just buy better foam and do it yourselfView attachment 1067058

Any foam recommendations that will last longer?

 

[madcalfe]

id have to try and track down the type i used.
I got it from a local foam store. its 1" thick and black.
I'm on year 4 with it and its hardly compressed after all the sheep hunts.

 

[mtnbound]

I cannot speak to the durability of the tactical light foam, but Kifaru changed that on the shoulder pads and lumbar pad with the Ark frame. I also do not know if the K4 or Ark lumbar pad foam is more durable with 1000's of miles. In my limited experience, both are durable for my needs and more durable than some of the boots I wear. The advantage of Kifaru and Exo over other pack companies is that they sell the foam replacements for reasonable costs.

As I said before, I have no experience with the Arc frame, but my Tactical frame foam was very comfortable, but it did wear out fast as I went through 2 sets. I have yet to replace any foam product on my EXO frames which have by far more milage than my Kifaru.

 

[Tanner]

I concur kifaru, and stone glacier foams sucks and wears out quick when you’re actually packing some weight. I wouldn’t waste money in buying new straps, just buy better foam and do it yourselfView attachment 1067058

How’d you put that foam in? Assuming you had to cut open and resew?