Suppressor Testing??

[omicron1792]

Wow, what a bunch of whiners. If you don't like the testing methods then ignore the results. If you want a test ran a certain way then do the testing yourself. I'm sure Ryan has enough on his plate without all your "suggestions". I appreciate that he's taking the time to do it.

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Wouldn’t the same hold for you? Couldn’t you just ignore the posts or opinions you don’t like?

 

[omicron1792]

The reality is that the common meters, while better than nothing- do not have the sample rate to give consistent real numbers. Some cans meter significantly lower than they actually are, and some meter louder than they are. Systems that are precise enough to give real numbers with all can designs are very expensive- far above what almost all companies can afford. And for the most part, it actually doesn’t matter the small differences between good cans… as long as you aren’t totally ignorant (or deceitful) and claim impossible numbers.

Ok, so the meters available aren’t perfect- well, the way to deal with those limitations is to recognize when the numbers being given are too good to be true, and not state them. Do larger sample sizes, 10+ shots, compare with known cans sized by side, and test multiple days. Even still- it’s very easy to be 3-6 dB off actual. The problem is people and companies latch onto artificially low numbers (like a can metering less than dry fire, or metering less than the action cycling- let alone port pop, etc.).

Again, once numbers are comfortably in the 130’s- it really doesn’t matter, and people don’t notice the difference in real life. It’s only the internet dorks that argue about 1-2 dB’s, and especially from systems that can’t measure it consistently.

1. Those few db difference can make a real difference on a persons longterm hearing. You’re doing harm to people telling them it doesn’t make a difference.

2. Why don’t you do exactly what you say here, with multiple days and 10+ shots, side by side with airlock vs OG?

3. I totally agree a company doing non comparison testing throwing out dB ranges is silly and provides no meaningful data.

 

[Grundy53]

Wouldn’t the same hold for you? Couldn’t you just ignore the posts or opinions you don’t like?

Sure. But they are clogging up what could be a good thread.

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[omicron1792]

Sure. But they are clogging up what could be a good thread.

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Aren’t your replies to them doing the same thing?

 

[MuleyFever]

And for the most part, it actually doesn’t matter the small differences between good cans… as long as you aren’t totally ignorant (or deceitful) and claim impossible numbers.

Pretty much all I can think about reading all this is that in reality, none of it actually matters in any hunting situation.

 

[MuleyFever]

1. Those few db difference can make a real difference on a persons longterm hearing. You’re doing harm to people telling them it doesn’t make a difference.

If someone is shooting a suppressed rifle enough without hearing protection to cause hearing damage they don't understand suppressors and are doing themselves harm. A few db isn't their issue.

 

[omicron1792]

If someone is shooting a suppressed rifle enough without hearing protection to cause hearing damage they don't understand suppressors and are doing themselves harm. A few db isn't their issue.

That’s just not correct my friend.

Even with hearing protection a suppressor 3db louder will still be 3db louder.

 

[sndmn11]

Couldn’t agree more. Same guys all the time. I’m here for the testing and looking forward to the videos. I think these videos are going to be valuable and as close as we get to actually screwing on some of the top suppressors and testing them ourselves before buying.

I wish there was a place where these guys could go where they were isolated and the rest of us didn’t have to sift through the drivel.

Did you end up ordering a TK suppressor? That would be a good one to have next to the airlock and unknowns whenever a Denver day gets on the calendar. If you did, I think the only one that wouldn't be present is the yet to be released Airlock30, of what Rokslide talks about.

For you folks complaining about testing standards, and doing things a certain way, but never doing them yourself. I hope it's just ignorance on how hard it is to test things in a documented manner, FOR FREE. Just say thanks, absorb the information you gained for sitting behind your screen, and use or forget it as you see fit.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Did you end up ordering a TK suppressor? That would be a good one to have next to the airlock and unknowns whenever a Denver day gets on the calendar. If you did, I think the only one that wouldn't be present is the yet to be released Airlock30, of what Rokslide talks about.

For you folks complaining about testing standards, and doing things a certain way, but never doing them yourself. I hope it's just ignorance on how hard it is to test things in a documented manner, FOR FREE. Just say thanks, absorb the information you gained for sitting behind your screen, and use or forget it as you see fit.

No, not sure which suppressor to get yet. I’m going to wait for the next 2 airlocks 30 cals to be released and make a decision. Leaning toward something with a brand though for the 300nmi. I’d love to try before you buy, but not really an option in the suppressor world…. At some point it’s a leap of faith but probably can’t go wrong with either company.

I agree on the testing. The real answer is it’s better than no testing and I think side by side comparisons with someone that knows what he’s talking about is about as good as you can get without buying them and screwing them onto your own rifle.

 

[Hurley88]

2. Why don’t you do exactly what you say here, with multiple days and 10+ shots, side by side with airlock vs OG?

I personally DID do that. With multiple days and multiple volunteers. But tbh…who am I in the wide world of the internet? It’s not enough to just write down a ton of notes and share the results, online everything is “grain of salt” so to do it right I’d have had to write down everyone’s name, all the atmospherics, make a spreadsheet, print everything off, make sure it’s all collated, and share it online in its own thread such that the info is laid out well for all to follow along.

Most of my testing started as a curiosity then grew into something that’s a more concerted effort. So by the time it really gets going, I have missed the boat on the lion’s share of proper presentation opportunity. Soooo…I just share and people can take it or leave it. I have a demanding job, and just wouldn’t ever put that amount of effort into testing unless being compensated.

Not casting particular shade…but it’s reading threads like this that solidify my laissez-faire approach. My take? @RyanAvery THANK YOU. Do what you do, and we all appreciate the info. We can disseminate from it what we will, we can discuss, and over time testing will get better. Nobody should expect it to meet their strict standards right off the bat, and a little encouragement to Ryan is in order.

 

[Hurley88]

Post in thread '**Results are in** REAPER vs AIRLOCK vs PTR VENT 1 vs NOMAD TI-XC vs DD ENTICER LTI TITANIUM SHOOTOUT' https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...cer-lti-titanium-shootout.427266/post-4464742

Airlock stood out amongst all these cans that are all considerably larger. So far, I haven't had a person yet not think my airlock isn't my quietest, best sounding can. I have compared it against my Scythe, OG30, Og65, gemtech and a few buddies Ultra 7, Ultra 5 and an Omega. From a size/weight, suppression factor, I don't think I have seen an equal for a hunting rifle can.

FWIW, in all the tests I’ve done of the OG65 vs Airlock 6.5 (even several since my last post on the subject), almost every single person gives the edge to the Airlock with earpro on next to the gun then those same people flip and give the edge to the OG65 with earpro off and 20yds back. The Airlock’s hiss tone sounds more enjoyable with earpro but the lower hollow tone of the OG65 is better without.

There’s more to an overall eval between the two just due to form factor & the little differences that makes, but when asked “Ok, which would you rather have when making that snapshot on an animal?” all have voted for the OG65

 

[omicron1792]

I personally DID do that. With multiple days and multiple volunteers. But tbh…who am I in the wide world of the internet? It’s not enough to just write down a ton of notes and share the results, online everything is “grain of salt” so to do it right I’d have had to write down everyone’s name, all the atmospherics, make a spreadsheet, print everything off, make sure it’s all collated, and share it online in its own thread such that the info is laid out well for all to follow along.

Most of my testing started as a curiosity then grew into something that’s a more concerted effort. So by the time it really gets going, I have missed the boat on the lion’s share of proper presentation opportunity. Soooo…I just share and people can take it or leave it. I have a demanding job, and just wouldn’t ever put that amount of effort into testing unless being compensated.

Not casting particular shade…but it’s reading threads like this that solidify my laissez-faire approach. My take? @RyanAvery THANK YOU. Do what you do, and we all appreciate the info. We can disseminate from it what we will, we can discuss, and over time testing will get better. Nobody should expect it to meet their strict standards right off the bat, and a little encouragement to Ryan is in order.

Everything I have read shows the airlock as quieter. I guess seeing some side by side with dB readings would be nice.

Remember all these folks (except Form) are selling a product. I’m thankful but I do show more thanks with my checkbook.

 

[Hurley88]

I like that checkbook remark, I hear you for sure. But my tests were with exactly guys like you in mind, trying to decide between two hot ticket items. I had them both, didn’t have a meter…so innocent bystanders became my medium. If you have any questions feel free to PM, I can get pretty far into the weeds on those two specifically.

 

[Formidilosus]

1. Those few db difference can make a real difference on a persons longterm hearing. You’re doing harm to people telling them it doesn’t make a difference.

You are not getting hearing damage from 131 dB’s versus 128. Nor from 133 dB versus 131.

If you care about max suppression, you don’t care about any of these cans- you use the Raptor 10 with OTB, Reaper or Reaper 8 with OTB, massive 338 cans, etc. You are fooling yourself if you believe any of these 4-6” cans are matching those in suppression.

Everything that is known about the damage is that once it is comfortably inside 130’s- it’s fine for a couple shots while hunting.

2. Why don’t you do exactly what you say here, with multiple days and 10+ shots, side by side with airlock vs OG?

Because I don’t have an Airlick. You’re responding like there is some kind of hidden agenda here. A fat, muzzle forward can with high back pressure is totally uninteresting to me- as I have told Danny. It is not what I want in a suppressor and therefore I am not buying one. You don’t see me running around using a Scythe or Reaper either (though the Reaper with the OTB is so effective that would use that some).

3. I totally agree a company doing non comparison testing throwing out dB ranges is silly and provides no meaningful data.

I’m not sure what you are getting at here? Every single eval I have done with suppressors has used a TBAC UL7 Gen 2 as the baseline.

 

[omicron1792]

You are not getting hearing damage from 131 dB’s versus 128. Nor from 133 dB versus 131.

If you care about max suppression, you don’t care about any of these cans- you use the Raptor 10 with OTB, Reaper or Reaper 8 with OTB, massive 338 cans, etc. You are fooling yourself if you believe any of these 4-6” cans are matching those in suppression.

Everything that is known about the damage is that once it is comfortably inside 130’s- it’s fine for a couple shots while hunting.





Because I don’t have an Airlick. You’re responding like there is some kind of hidden agenda here. A fat, muzzle forward can with high back pressure is totally uninteresting to me- as I have told Danny. It is not what I want in a suppressor and therefore I am not buying one. You don’t see me running around using a Scythe or Reaper either (though the Reaper with the OTB is so effective that would use that some).




I’m not sure what you are getting at here? Every single eval I have done with suppressors has used a TBAC UL7 Gen 2 as the baseline.

I was agreeing with you on the 3rd point.

As for the first, you’re wrong on that. You have so much good experience with a lot of things, but you have no idea what you’re talking about here.

 

[Formidilosus]

I was agreeing with you on the 3rd point.

Ok.

As for the first, you’re wrong on that. You have so much good experience with a lot of things, but you have no idea what you’re talking about here.

Do regale me. What dB number is the cut off for “safe”?

 

[omicron1792]

Ok.




Do regale me. What dB number is the cut off for “safe”?

There really is not one. As low as you can get. OSHA drops down to 75db in their time based systems.

Anything over 100db enough times will cause damage eventually.

Hearing protection doesn’t take you down to a baseline. It drops you from the max level. So if you have 30db of protection from something that is 130, you get to 100. If 30 from 133, it’s 103.

For some, no big deal. You shoot 50k rounds a year, that extra 3db adds up. It’s literally double the energy you are receiving. Compared to a 3db lower suppressor.

 

[HuntHarder]

FWIW, in all the tests I’ve done of the OG65 vs Airlock 6.5 (even several since my last post on the subject), almost every single person gives the edge to the Airlock with earpro on next to the gun then those same people flip and give the edge to the OG65 with earpro off and 20yds back. The Airlock’s hiss tone sounds more enjoyable with earpro but the lower hollow tone of the OG65 is better without.

There’s more to an overall eval between the two just due to form factor & the little differences that makes, but when asked “Ok, which would you rather have when making that snapshot on an animal?” all have voted for the OG65

I could see that. I don't know if I have had anyone listen to either without earpro. I have been happy with my OG65. No doubt they are both solid hunting cans imo.

 

[Formidilosus]

There really is not one. As low as you can get.

You have no answer, but you’re telling me I have no idea what I am talking about here? Functionally tell me how 129dB is “safe”, but 131dB is “dangerous”- if you can’t, then you just agreed with what I wrote.

OSHA drops down to 75db in their time based systems.

Anything over 100db enough times will cause damage eventually.

Hearing protection doesn’t take you down to a baseline. It drops you from the max level. So if you have 30db of protection from something that is 130, you get to 100. If 30 from 133, it’s 103.

I don’t know what you believe you are educating me on here, but I am aware of how it works.

For some, no big deal. You shoot 50k rounds a year, that extra 3db adds up. It’s literally double the energy you are receiving. Compared to a 3db lower suppressor.

If I am getting damage from 132dB, I am getting damage from 130dB. You could not see the difference in those two.

It seems you are spun up about something and not reading what is actually being written.

 

[Shortschaf]

Im no doctor but I see this and think the interpretation is clear that less is better than more for our hearing