Supplements and Vitamins

[TheCoyote]

Noob question here. What’s the deal with supplements and vitamins? I’m wondering how much of this stuff can my body actually absorb? How much of it improves health and how much is snake oil?

I’m 38 years old, having never took anything like that in my life. I started taking a wilderness athlete multi vitamin and I can feel a difference. I actually feel better.

Now I’m looking at more supplements and more expensive vitamins, but not completely sold on it.

Boy they will sell me a handful of pills to take every day but dang that’s a lot for my body to deal with. I’m thinking it’ll give me kidney stones or something!

Any advice?

 

[amassi]

Watch/ listen to Dr Andrew Huberman, Dr Mile isratael and Dr layne Norton for no BS science backed and peer reviewed info on supplements, dosing and snake oil bs. Those 3 are probably the most straight shooters out currently


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[gumbl3]

You are what you eat.. No snake oil or supplement is going to fix that.. Soda, sugars, processed foods, alcohol.. its all gotta go. Then you can really evaluate where you are deficient and if you need supplements, which you will probably find you don't and will feel better than you ever have

 

[BH2010]

You are what you eat.. No snake oil or supplement is going to fix that.. Soda, sugars, processed foods, alcohol.. its all gotta go. Then you can really evaluate where you are deficient and if you need supplements, which you will probably find you don't and will feel better than you ever have

Definitely the way. I stopped drinking calories except for the occasional glass of bourbon at work dinners and feel way better. Started skipping breakfast soon after and didn't miss it. Between the two I've lost 20 lbs with some mild exercise and it's been easy to keep it off.

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[BT_707]

I’m 33. I consistently take creatine, protein and ZMA. BCAA’s and multivitamin are a plus.
Recently I’ve been hammering the electrolytes!

Get daily sunlight early in the morning, drink salt water before coffee, high protein diet(limit processed foods) and get 8 hrs of sleep. Workout 3-5 days and you’ll be feeling great!

 

[dtrkyman]

I agree on the food being the most critical, however there are some folks talking how depleted the food is now compared to 30 plus years ago, a lot of the soil is depleted and the food no longer has the percentage of nutrients it once did.

Heard the comparison of having to eat 6 or 7 oranges to equal one orange from the 70s, interesting theory that I have been meaning to read into some more.

 

[D S 319]

Most of the time vitamins and supplements are marketing.. if you really want to find out go do some blood work, see what you’re deficient in, and go from there.

 

[Mk44]

I take a daily multivitamin (50+), vitamin C & D. Creatine, BCAA, pre-workout & whey protein. I get my bloodwork completed along with my annual physical.
A multi-vitamin is fine. But over taking various vitamins without finding out what you're deficient in isn't a good idea. And maybe more harmful than good.

 

[ShortMountain91]

I've been hesitant to take a multivitamin daily because I've heard of studies where over indexing on some vitamins specifically antioxidants can actually make you die earlier. Plus most of the research I've seen is unclear if there's any benefits.

I personally take creatine, whey protein, vitamin D (because I tested and determined I was low), fish oil, and caffeine through a pre-workout and coffee. I'm somewhat interested in zinc and may start taking that. Agree that a full blood panel would help you see what you're high or low on

 

[eltaco]

I’ve taken vitamins off and on over the past couple of years…. Really more off than on though. I have to say even when I get onto multivitamins for an extended duration, I can’t say I feel any different. Maybe that’s because I’m not deficient, maybe I’ve taken ineffective options, or whatever. In the end, I’ve not found myself convinced they’re very beneficial.

I’m sure there’s merit to it, but I do agree that every day food and beverage discipline have had far more affect on my overall health.

I am curious about bloodwork, however, as it would be insightful to know what I’m deficient in and target supplements to those deficiencies or alter intake if I alternatively find I’m high in something I shouldn’t be.

What I have been curious on, is whether blood work would be consistent day to day or over the course of weeks, or are you simply getting a snapshot of that day. Say for example I’m low on something the day I do blood work, is that indicative of a consistent deficiency, or just a result of what I did or didn’t consume in the past 24hrs? I don’t want to react to daily differences, but would be interested in understanding an average deficiency and how to resolve it.

 

[pattimusprime22]

A good resource is examine.com. They summarize all the peer reviewed studies done on different supplements, and you can see if the marketing is backed up or just hype. My takeaway from a lot of supplements that influencers say are "game changers" is that the actual magnitude of effect is minimal and I'm likely just spending money for some placebo effect.

 

[aftriathlete]

Fish oil is top for impact on health in my mind. Then after that there are a couple contenders. Creatine and Vit D are up there. I used to do a lot of supplements and proteins in my 20s. Nowadays just high quality fish oil, Vit D and Zinc to supplement a healthy diet.

 

[fwafwow]

I went down this path, bought the most expensive and highest rated (at the time it was Thorne), but I was incredibly frustrated at how hard it was to get decent research on whether any vitamins or supplements actually work. I ended up stopping.

I do remember a multi-part documentary from years ago, either the BBC or PBS, in which they explained how the industry fought against falling under the FDA (probably because the makers can’t support any of their claims), how the manufacturing process is unsupervised (meaning subject to contamination) and that many of the claims are BS (like fish oil - or worse, that most fish oil tested was rancid).

 

[fwafwow]

I went down this path, bought the most expensive and highest rated (at the time it was Thorne), but I was incredibly frustrated at how hard it was to get decent research on whether any vitamins or supplements actually work. I ended up stopping.

I do remember a multi-part documentary from years ago, either the BBC or PBS, in which they explained how the industry fought against falling under the FDA (probably because the makers can’t support any of their claims), how the manufacturing process is unsupervised (meaning subject to contamination) and that many of the claims are BS (like fish oil - or worse, that most fish oil tested was rancid).

Found it

Frontline PBS Documentary Supplements And Safety Film Review

supplementpolice.com

 

[Marbles]

Unless you have a specific deficiency, they are a wast of money.

Example, there is zero evidence (only a hypothesis) to support antioxidants preventing cancer. Multiple antioxidant studies have been stopped early due to higher cancer rates in the group receiving antioxidants. So, supplements could actually be harmful.

Interestingly while eating fish is associated which decreased cardiovascular risk, fish oil supplementation does not reduce risk. So, there is not a good reason to spend money on it.

I always find it amusing when patients complain of taking too many pills and want to stop medications that reduce mortality by 72%, but will not consider stopping the multiple supplements they take. In the end, their life, their choice.

If you want to be healthier:
-Don't smoke, or at least cut back significantly
-Don't drink, or at least cut back significantly
-Have a diet high in fruit, vegetables, and fish
-Exercise at moderate intensity at least 5 days a week for 30 minutes per day
-Do some strength training at least 3 days a week
-Avoid being obese

 

[fwafwow]

Unless you have a specific deficiency, they are a wast of money.

Example, there is zero evidence (only a hypothesis) to support antioxidants preventing cancer. Multiple antioxidant studies have been stopped early due to higher cancer rates in the group receiving antioxidants. So, supplements could actually be harmful.

Interestingly while eating fish is associated which decreased cardiovascular risk, fish oil supplementation does not reduce risk. So, there is not a good reason to spend money on it.

I always find it amusing when patients complain of taking too many pills and want to stop medications that reduce mortality by 72%, but will not consider stopping the multiple supplements they take. In the end, their life, their choice.

If you want to be healthier:
-Don't smoke, or at least cut back significantly
-Don't drink, or at least cut back significantly
-Have a diet high in fruit, vegetables, and fish
-Exercise at moderate intensity at least 5 days a week for 30 minutes per day
-Do some strength training at least 3 days a week
-Avoid being obese

Thanks. If these were really so great, as claimed, then I would think that the industry (or at least some of the more reputable makers) would make it easy to find the data to back it up. Note - I am not just throwing stones at the supplement/vitamin industry. Same goes for pharma IMHO - as I yesterday was looking for a mortality table from the Supplementary Appendix of the EUA study for the Moderna vaccine (out of curiosity). It's not easy to find

 

[aftriathlete]

Unless you have a specific deficiency, they are a wast of money.

Example, there is zero evidence (only a hypothesis) to support antioxidants preventing cancer. Multiple antioxidant studies have been stopped early due to higher cancer rates in the group receiving antioxidants. So, supplements could actually be harmful.

Interestingly while eating fish is associated which decreased cardiovascular risk, fish oil supplementation does not reduce risk. So, there is not a good reason to spend money on it.

I always find it amusing when patients complain of taking too many pills and want to stop medications that reduce mortality by 72%, but will not consider stopping the multiple supplements they take. In the end, their life, their choice.

If you want to be healthier:
-Don't smoke, or at least cut back significantly
-Don't drink, or at least cut back significantly
-Have a diet high in fruit, vegetables, and fish
-Exercise at moderate intensity at least 5 days a week for 30 minutes per day
-Do some strength training at least 3 days a week
-Avoid being obese

I’d be interested where you read that fish oil supplementation doesn’t decrease cardiovascular risk. Everything I’ve read says the opposite.

 

[Team4LongGun]

I'd be interested in folks who share providing some basis for their experience or opinion. This is an interesting topic, where one person could be a MD specializing in this field, and another just a knuckle dragger like me.

 

[aftriathlete]

There’s a lot here on fish oil benefits.

FoundMyFitness Topic - Omega-3 fatty acids

Omega-3 fatty acids play critical roles in human health and may be beneficial in ameliorating symptoms associated with chronic health conditions and in combating aging-related diseases.

www.foundmyfitness.com

 

[Marbles]

Thanks. If these were really so great, as claimed, then I would think that the industry (or at least some of the more reputable makers) would make it easy to find the data to back it up. Note - I am not just throwing stones at the supplement/vitamin industry. Same goes for pharma IMHO - as I yesterday was looking for a mortality table from the Supplementary Appendix of the EUA study for the Moderna vaccine (out of curiosity). It's not easy to find

Sort of. There are many very good medications that most people would have trouble finding or understanding the evidence that shows they are good. There are many commonly accepted truths (to include in medicine) that have nothing but a hypothesis to support them.

I try to stay with the evidence, but sometimes there is not good evidence and a hypothesis is the best one has. As long as you know the weakness of that, it is fine to run with it untill better data is available.

There may be supplements worth pursuing, but having failed to find one I have stopped looking as it is a low yield area. Example, supper beats clearly low BP, however not everything that lowers BP improves long term outcomes. Most likely it is the nitrates in the beats, nitrates (without a specific reason to use them such as angina) are not associated with improved outcomes. So, if I'm going to need BP meds I would personally opt for the cheaper ARB (such as losartan) than the more expensive and unproven supper beats. In the end, I really care only about the improved long term outcomes, not a number (other than to the extent the number helps me get to the outcome).

I spend a lot of time taking people off beta-blockers (BB) if the BB is only for blood pressure. While BBs get the number down, if there is not another reason for BBs, they don't improve outcomes. So, they treat the number, not the patient in the case of blood pressure.

Because BBs do a good job treating the number they once were first line therapy for BP control and are still prescribed for it commonly. The hypothesis was legitimate, but did not stand up to investigation.

There are very good reasons to use BBs though, and suddenly stopping can be dangerous, so no on should stop them without involving a healthcare provider.