Suggestions on Best Rig for CO's Elk Muzzleloader Season

[JGBowman]

Howdy,

I am looking for an inline muzzleloader I can use in CO for their September season. Not going to CO this year but I want to have something ready for the future.

I really like th CVAs, but I am open to whatever. Needs to have open sights but having the option for a scope would be useful.

Thanks in advance!

Jake

 

[Newtosavage]

I dunno about "best" (I'm not a ML expert) but I'm happy with my CVA Optima. Carried it on one cow elk ML hunt but never got to fire it. I'll be taking it again this fall, Lord willing.

Not the lightest of rifles but unscoped it's light enough and shooting full bore 300 grainers over a stout charge, I don't want to shoot a lighter rifle. That thing with elk loads delivers the worst recoil of anything I shoot.

Back here in the deer woods, I've taken several whitetails with it, topped with a lightweight fixed 4x or 2-7x scope. I've had zero problems with my Optima. Got the BH 209 breech plug for it but it works equally well with either BH 209 or Triple Seven.

It does have one of the best triggers I have on any rifle. Muzzleloader or otherwise.

 

[SteveCNJ]

I dunno about "best" (I'm not a ML expert) but I'm happy with my CVA Optima. Carried it on one cow elk ML hunt but never got to fire it. I'll be taking it again this fall, Lord willing.

Not the lightest of rifles but unscoped it's light enough and shooting full bore 300 grainers over a stout charge, I don't want to shoot a lighter rifle. That thing with elk loads delivers the worst recoil of anything I shoot.

Back here in the deer woods, I've taken several whitetails with it, topped with a lightweight fixed 4x or 2-7x scope. I've had zero problems with my Optima. Got the BH 209 breech plug for it but it works equally well with either BH 209 or Triple Seven.

It does have one of the best triggers I have on any rifle. Muzzleloader or otherwise.

How much BH209 are you using and do you weigh it or pour by volume?

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[Newtosavage]

How much BH209 are you using and do you weigh it or pour by volume?

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I've done both. For full bore 300 grainers (Hornady FPB's) I was using 100 grains by volume of BH 209. It was a stout butt-kicking load in an unscoped rifle. For my deer load in TX, I only use 80 grains by volume behind a 240 grain .44 cal bullet in a sabot. That's a pretty easy shooter.

 

[SteveCNJ]

I've done both. For full bore 300 grainers (Hornady FPB's) I was using 100 grains by volume of BH 209. It was a stout butt-kicking load in an unscoped rifle. For my deer load in TX, I only use 80 grains by volume behind a 240 grain .44 cal bullet in a sabot. That's a pretty easy shooter.

Thank you. I shoot 70 grains by weight under Barnes T-EZ 290 gr sabots from my Bone Collector. The muzzle velocity is 1845 and is very accurate.

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[WRM]

If you can use one in CO, I'd build out a smokeless front loader using a Savage rifle of choice. I put my smokepoles behind me once I went that route.

I put mine on the Axis II rifle, but that was mainly because it was what I wanted anyway. You could get away with a cheaper model for sure.

Good source for a package to convert is

Precision Rifle Home - the world's most innovative Muzzleloader Bullets

Precision Rifle - Manufacturer of the world's most accurate muzzleloader bullets. Includes QT, Dead Center, Extreme Elite, Keith-Nose saboted bullets. Gonic sabots, breech plugs, Vari-flame, super rat, big game air gun bullets, 9mm hunting air gun bullets, rifle primers for muzzleloaders...

www.prbullet.com

I haven't gotten one (yet) because the Axis II trigger is pretty good, but Elftmann makes a reasonably priced replacement trigger.

If you decide to go this route, pm me and I'll walk you through how to get that damn barrel off the Savage.

 

[Newtosavage]

If you can use one in CO, I'd build out a smokeless front loader using a Savage rifle of choice. I put my smokepoles behind me once I went that route.

I put mine on the Axis II rifle, but that was mainly because it was what I wanted anyway. You could get away with a cheaper model for sure.

Good source for a package to convert is

Precision Rifle Home - the world's most innovative Muzzleloader Bullets

Precision Rifle - Manufacturer of the world's most accurate muzzleloader bullets. Includes QT, Dead Center, Extreme Elite, Keith-Nose saboted bullets. Gonic sabots, breech plugs, Vari-flame, super rat, big game air gun bullets, 9mm hunting air gun bullets, rifle primers for muzzleloaders...

www.prbullet.com

I haven't gotten one (yet) because the Axis II trigger is pretty good, but Elftmann makes a reasonably priced replacement trigger.

If you decide to go this route, pm me and I'll walk you through how to get that damn barrel off the Savage.

I've broken down a lot of Savages and rebarreled them. I'm wondering what barrels you're installing?

 

[jayhawk]

Any of the CVA or Thompson Center MLs should be fine. If possible, handle as many as you can. In my experience, stock fit, cast, alignment, etc. is more important when looking down open sights than peering through a scope. How the gun shoulders and how naturally your eye falls in line with your sight picture.

 

[sneaky]

Knight UL

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Keith Stone]

If you can use one in CO, I'd build out a smokeless front loader using a Savage rifle of choice. I put my smokepoles behind me once I went that route.

I put mine on the Axis II rifle, but that was mainly because it was what I wanted anyway. You could get away with a cheaper model for sure.

Good source for a package to convert is

Precision Rifle Home - the world's most innovative Muzzleloader Bullets

Precision Rifle - Manufacturer of the world's most accurate muzzleloader bullets. Includes QT, Dead Center, Extreme Elite, Keith-Nose saboted bullets. Gonic sabots, breech plugs, Vari-flame, super rat, big game air gun bullets, 9mm hunting air gun bullets, rifle primers for muzzleloaders...

www.prbullet.com

I haven't gotten one (yet) because the Axis II trigger is pretty good, but Elftmann makes a reasonably priced replacement trigger.

If you decide to go this route, pm me and I'll walk you through how to get that damn barrel off the Savage.

Unfortunately can’t go smokeless in Colorado and they do not specify you can’t use a LR primer in a module but they say you can use a 209 primer so I’d say it is a gray area that probably wouldn’t go in your favor.

I've broken down a lot of Savages and rebarreled them. I'm wondering what barrels you're installing?

Smokeless Muzzle Loader - Custom Prefit

[email protected]

patriotvalleyarms.com

 

[WRM]

I've broken down a lot of Savages and rebarreled them. I'm wondering what barrels you're installing?

Barrel came from PR Bullets, but no idea where he gets them. Had no issue with it at all. Issue was breaking loose the factory barrel nut. Cake once you finally get that sucker to break loose.

 

[TraderMike]

IMO, you won't find a better muzzleloader for hunting Colorado than a White. They aren't made any longer but can be found if you look. Their reputation for shooting heavy lead (full bore-conical) with impressive accuracy is well established. Match grade barrels and Timney triggers are standard. Their reputation and build quality has made them somewhat of a "collectable", so they don't generally come cheap on the used market. I have tinkered with BH209 and various "modern" projectiles but with Colorado's regulations and open sight requirements, a No.11 cap ignition and Triple7 pushing 460g bullets from No Excuses or The Bull Shop keeps things simple and reliable. And heavy lead kills elk very effectively in my experience.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/934114810

A Knight MK85 would be my second choice; No.11 cap ignition as well....

 

[Tigerwerkes]

Following.

 

[WRM]

Most any relatively modern ML with external percussion lock can be converted to 209 for anyone who wants to go that route. I put an enclosed 209 nipple on my old (70's) TC Renegade .50 cal and it shoots saboted .44s very nicely over 209. I've shot 50s out of it with 209 too, but it's mostly just a plinker now.

 

[wind gypsy]

Unfortunately can’t go smokeless in Colorado and they do not specify you can’t use a LR primer in a module but they say you can use a 209 primer so I’d say it is a gray area that probably wouldn’t go in your favor.

I'd wondered about whether there was an interpretation consensus on that as my only muzzleloader is a encore with arrowhead smokeless barrel/LRP modules.

The regs list out a bunch of stuff that isnt legal (sabots, smokeless powder, pelletized powder, breech loading) but don't say anything about any primer system being illegal. It doesn't say musket caps are legal but i could see their logic being that shotgun primers are technologically superior which is why they are listed. My interpretation would be that LRP or LRMP are fair game but I wouldn't feel 100% on it.

 

[Keith Stone]

I'd wondered about whether there was an interpretation consensus on that as my only muzzleloader is a encore with arrowhead smokeless barrel/LRP modules.

The regs list out a bunch of stuff that isnt legal (sabots, smokeless powder, pelletized powder, breech loading) but don't say anything about any primer system being illegal. It doesn't say musket caps are legal but i could see their logic being that shotgun primers are technologically superior which is why they are listed. My interpretation would be that LRP or LRMP are fair game but I wouldn't feel 100% on it.

I was curious as well so I called CPW, first person I talked to went to get a second opinion then said they would have to follow up in an email. I’ll post up what they send me

 

[wind gypsy]

I was curious as well so I called CPW, first person I talked to went to get a second opinion then said they would have to follow up in an email. I’ll post up what they send me

The more I think about it that should be an easy one to fight if they tried to cite you for it. There is nothing remotely concrete in the regs that indicates they are not legal lest we interpret to regs to only use what they explicitly say you can use which isn't how they work.

 

[WRM]

that should be an easy one to fight if they tried to cite you for it

As long as you live there and go to court to fight it. Otherwise, a huge expense and headache for the risk. And, the "email" doesn't keep the dude with the badge from writing you up and letting the judge sort it out. You lose--you got yourself a game conviction.

Fortunately, our game dept has, thus far, been pretty quiet on it. Basically, they just say "muzzleloader". That's what you want if you are going to push boundaries. "I'm loading from the muzzle, sir, what else would you have me do?" I've gotten a couple funny looks from other hunters when I pulled the Axis II out to leave parking area. I expect at some point the game folks here will get into some sort of further regulation. Until then, smokeless I'll be.

 

[Keith Stone]

 

[wind gypsy]

View attachment 413904

So basically "we don't know our regulations so we'll let each CO make up the rules based on how they feel about it". They should be embarrassed by that response.