Stupid poll: Which rifle?

[KurtR]

Hey Colby, to be one of the cool kids on this forum, you have to say you used MATCH grade bullets. And don't forget the infamous, "bang flop" part.

You were asked about your experience with them. Seems other than parroting bullshit you hear from YouTubers there isn’t any

 

[Ryan Avery]

Do you think the ELD-M is superior to the ELD-X? I will be using a 7PRC this year so I’m curious about your thoughts on the 175 eldx Vs 180eldm.

Yes! The ELD-Ms gives me the best terminal performance window.

 

[Fever Buck]

Yes! The ELD-Ms gives me the best terminal performance window.

Thanks! Have you written any articles on it or podcasts I could listen to? Would love to learn more about it.

 

[SwiftShot]

The only difference really between many match and hunting bullets is some process for increased core retention on the hunting bullet. I blasted a cow ag point blank range and that increased retention did not hold up well. Cow died instantly and bullet worked fine. It would have been the same result with a match bullet. At range they perform pretty close.

Would I hunt grizzly with a match, hell no because I might need to go from the skull to the vitals. Shooting an animal broadside really comes down to hitting where you aim.

On to the question, 300 WSM is awesome so is the 6.5 PRC. At range if you are using 140 plus in the PRC and 180s in the WSM. The PRC will catch it.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

I'd take the prc because it's heavier.

You're not just trying to punish me for being out of shape are you?

 

[sndmn11]

You're not just trying to punish me for being out of shape are you?

No.
A heavier rifle and less recoil (powder and bullet mass) probably means it will be easier to shoot.

 

[Rich M]

Why not a 243?

There are plenty of guys on here seem to favor them. You can thank me later.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

Why not a 243?

There are plenty of guys on here seem to favor them. You can thank me later.

I grew up with a 243 and absolutely love the round, but I don't have one.

 

[pwdrski]

.300 WSM just for that little extra oomph on elk

 

[TBearguide]

Shoot each rifle from normal hunting positions at 3-500yrds. Those targets will tell you the best option.

The 300 WSM is not more terminally effective than the 6.5 PRC. It's more recoil to do the same thing. I hunted with a lightweight, unbraked 300 WSM for the last 3 years. Killed deer, elk, and bear from 200-1170 yards and it works great, but I never saw a wound channel distinguishably larger than what my previous 6.5 CMs made. Both were shooting heavy for caliber ELD M. That led me back to a lighter recoiling caliber that will do everything the 300 WSM does, but I get to watch my hits.
Shoot the one you shoot best in the field. 1 lb of rifle weight isn't that big of a deal.

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I would respectfully say the bullet speed and drop are similar between the 2 calibers, but disagree that terminal performance is indeed different unless you are shooting a 147 grain bullet out of the WSM, which no one is. So the "terminal" velocity is similar but the terminal energy in foot pounds is very different. With the 300 wsm delivering more energy at every range than the PRC. Not saying that the 6.5 PRC is bad, the hunter just needs to know the effective range of their rifle and bullet combo. The old standby of 2000 foot pounds for an Elk and 1500 foot pounds for a deer should be a statistic we think about when considering trying to kill anything bigger than a steel plate at longer yardage. The industry has developed better calibers for better rifles with amazing scopes. If you take the time to figure out how many MOAs to adjust in elevation, please also consider the energy of the bullet at that range and its lethality.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

I would respectfully say the bullet speed and drop are similar between the 2 calibers, but disagree that terminal performance is indeed different unless you are shooting a 147 grain bullet out of the WSM, which no one is. So the "terminal" velocity is similar but the terminal energy in foot pounds is very different. With the 300 wsm delivering more energy at every range than the PRC. Not saying that the 6.5 PRC is bad, the hunter just needs to know the effective range of their rifle and bullet combo. The old standby of 2000 foot pounds for an Elk and 1500 foot pounds for a deer should be a statistic we think about when considering trying to kill anything bigger than a steel plate at longer yardage. The industry has developed better calibers for better rifles with amazing scopes. If you take the time to figure out how many MOAs to adjust in elevation, please also consider the energy of the bullet at that range and its lethality.

According to my calculations plugging info into Strelok the PRC is showing 1980 ft lbs at 300 yards and WSM is showing 1940 ft lbs at 800 yards.
2k for Elk and 1.5k for deer, guessing a very general guideline for Elk Cow may be roughly in between eh?
I'm sure almost anything works in the lungs but I've always planned for the worst not relied on everything being optimal because that's not always the case.

 

[SDHNTR]

I would respectfully say the bullet speed and drop are similar between the 2 calibers, but disagree that terminal performance is indeed different unless you are shooting a 147 grain bullet out of the WSM, which no one is. So the "terminal" velocity is similar but the terminal energy in foot pounds is very different. With the 300 wsm delivering more energy at every range than the PRC. Not saying that the 6.5 PRC is bad, the hunter just needs to know the effective range of their rifle and bullet combo. The old standby of 2000 foot pounds for an Elk and 1500 foot pounds for a deer should be a statistic we think about when considering trying to kill anything bigger than a steel plate at longer yardage. The industry has developed better calibers for better rifles with amazing scopes. If you take the time to figure out how many MOAs to adjust in elevation, please also consider the energy of the bullet at that range and its lethality.

Yawn. Energy schmenergy. Bullets dont kills with energy. Just shoot the gun you shoot best in field positions. Anything else is nonsense. The bullet going where it needs to go and disrupting vital tissue is what matters, not match vs not or some silly arbitrary energy figure.

 

[SDHNTR]

According to my calculations plugging info into Strelok the PRC is showing 1980 ft lbs at 300 yards and WSM is showing 1940 ft lbs at 800 yards.
2k for Elk and 1.5k for deer, guessing a very general guideline for Elk Cow may be roughly in between eh?
I'm sure almost anything works in the lungs but I've always planned for the worst not relied on everything being optimal because that's not always the case.

Don’t waste your time calculating silly stuff, especially energy.

Go take a box or two of ammo out with each gun. Put a 8-10” plate up at whatever your max anticipated distance is. One target for each gun. Fire the same amount of rounds out of each gun. Prone, sitting/kneeling off sticks, backpack, tripod/bipod, whatever your pleasure. Then go count the hits. The one with the most hits is the one you take.

 

[eoperator]

The old standby of 2000 foot pounds for an Elk and 1500 foot pounds for a deer should be a statistic we think about

Energy needed is nothing but a bunch of regurgitated fuddlore who ha.

The wound cavity created by your bullet at impact velocity is what you should be thinking about.

 

[TBearguide]

I would respectfully say the bullet speed and drop are similar between the 2 calibers, but disagree that terminal performance is indeed different unless you are shooting a 147 grain bullet out of the WSM, which no one is. So the "terminal" velocity is similar but the terminal energy in foot pounds is very different. With the 300 wsm delivering more energy at every range than the PRC. Not saying that the 6.5 PRC is bad, the hunter just needs to know the effective range of their rifle and bullet combo. The old standby of 2000 foot pounds for an Elk and 1500 foot pounds for a deer should be a statistic we think about when considering trying to kill anything bigger than a steel plate at longer yardage. The industry has developed better calibers for better rifles with amazing scopes. If you take the time to figure out how many MOAs to adjust in elevation, please also consider the energy of the bullet at that range and it's lethality.

Energy needed is nothing but a bunch of regurgitated fuddlore who ha.

The wound cavity created by your bullet at impact velocity is what you should be thinking about.

Fuddlore?? Ya, ok. Isaac Newton was just a chump. Peace.

 

[SDHNTR]

Fuddlore?? Ya, ok. Isaac Newton was just a chump. Peace.

Did Newton hunt?

 

[eoperator]

Fuddlore?? Ya, ok. Isaac Newton was just a chump. Peace.

Did Isaac Newton invent the "energy needed to kill" equation?

 

[Colby]

According to my calculations plugging info into Strelok the PRC is showing 1980 ft lbs at 300 yards and WSM is showing 1940 ft lbs at 800 yards.
2k for Elk and 1.5k for deer, guessing a very general guideline for Elk Cow may be roughly in between eh?
I'm sure almost anything works in the lungs but I've always planned for the worst not relied on everything being optimal because that's not always the case.

If you have an open mind and are interested in learning more about terminal ballistics I suggest the 223 thread as a good place for start, not to keep beating the 223 drum but there is a lot of info there that is very helpful.
I grew up reading petersons hunting and guns & ammo with all the ft lb requirement for different critters and went with it for a long time. Have owned and killed a good bit of critters with big magnums.
The real key in my opinion is that a guy legitimately has to have an open mind, just because one cartridge has more ft lbs of energy than another does not mean it will make a bigger wound. The projectile determines the wound.
Pick an optimized projectile for a cartridge that you can really manage recoil with, i.e. you’re still looking through the scope when the bullet gets to the target and run with it. I would bet the heavier prc will give you a better chance of doing this than the wsm. 233/6cm/6.5cm would be even easier to manage.
This is not stuff that I cooked up on my own, I have been fortunate to have been helped along by some very knowledgeable people from this site.
There really is a wealth of knowledge available here if a guy wants to soak it up.
At the end of the day not my monkey not my circus but you seem like you’re wanting to ask legitimate questions that there are good answers for.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Fuddlore?? Ya, ok. Isaac Newton was just a chump. Peace.

You should know as a “bear guide” what kills is properly constructed bullets placed into vitals. Not “EnErGy!”

 

[PathFinder]

It takes very little energy to destroy enough tissue to kill and elk. Under 100 lb ft actually.
Don't bring up Newton if you don't want to go down the technical road and present data.

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