Struggling to see the point of 6.5's

[Newtosavage]

You have a bunch of 4166 that isn't being used?

I do

You are evaluating the wrong bullets. Monos suck. The benefit to a 6.5 is they shoot high BC, high sectional density bullets with very little recoil. If your animals aren’t dropping after being shot with a 6.5 its because you are using the wrong bullets or are a piss poor shot. If you are a piss poor shot and are thinking a 300 mag will compensate for that, you are mistaken.

My 6.5 PRC has the same or better ballistics as a 7mm RM, with less recoil, less powder and just as much “killing power”.

Your 708 may hang with the 6.5 creemoor out to 500, but after that the little 6.5 will win.

Two things to my response- 1st, I’m committed to monos and 2nd, I expected the bc’s of 6.5’s to be considerably better than 7’s but they really aren’t that different.

 

[Newtosavage]

Manageable recoil, easy to find ammo/components. 1000 ft/lbs out to 900 yards at my elevation.

Load up some 147 eldms at 2750 and report back.

PRC does nothing but add maybe 200 yards to the cm.

What do 147 eldm’s do that 162 eld-x’s don’t? Just less recoil?

 

[sndmn11]

I do

85gr hammers with 4166!

...or bring it to Denver next time and I'll buy the rest of it.

 

[Newtosavage]

Well, I don’t know if you consider it much- but the most I’ve done was 35 deer in a week with a 7mm-08…. It does nothing “above the specifications of the round”.
Bullets matter. Good bullets make every cartridge look good. There is zero, as in as close to no observable difference as you can get between any of the mid rounds in killing when seen with like bullets in large numbers of animals. I’ve killed triple digits of game animals with .224, .243, 6.5, and .308 mid size cartridges; and high double digits with 7mm’s. With good bullets no one can watch the video and say what animal was shot with what round by the reaction, nor can anyone walk up and look at a hundred dead animals and the wounds created and say which did which.

Most petiole make conclusions based on insufficient data, with insufficient information, based on small sample sizes, and little to no understand of what they are looking at, with massive amounts of bias.

The amount of people that have killed anough to find the most destructive bullet (read: best killing) projectiles in 6.5 versus 7mm, let alone in .224/.243/etc, and used all of the bullets and calibers to kill large numbers of animals is hopelessly, laughably small. That is why people believe there is some observable difference between any of them.


What 6.5cm gives the market over the 7mm-08 is factory, world class ammo and rifles chambered correctly for that round, with equal hits in the field with measurably less recoil- that is felt and seen with spotting one’s own impacts. At the same recoil level, the 6.5 offers measurably higher hit rates than 7mm’s.

I agree with everything you said except for the recoil. To me it’s barely a noticeable difference between the CM and 7-08

 

[Newtosavage]

85gr hammers with 4166!

...or bring it to Denver next time and I'll buy the rest of it.

I may be building another 7-08 soon though.

 

[sndmn11]

I may be building another 7-08 soon though.

That can eat Staball.

 

[Newtosavage]

Why do you care what other people are doing with 6.5s? If you’re a dedicated and proficient 7mm reloaded and killer, stick with that.

Didn’t say I cared, I asked what am I missing. As in I feel like with so many choosing 6.5’s over 7’s these days, there must be a reason

 

[KenLee]

Well, I don’t know if you consider it much- but the most I’ve done was 35 deer in a week with a 7mm-08…. It does nothing “above the specifications of the round”.
Bullets matter. Good bullets make every cartridge look good. There is zero, as in as close to no observable difference as you can get between any of the mid rounds in killing when seen with like bullets in large numbers of animals. I’ve killed triple digits of game animals with .224, .243, 6.5, and .308 mid size cartridges; and high double digits with 7mm’s. With good bullets no one can watch the video and say what animal was shot with what round by the reaction, nor can anyone walk up and look at a hundred dead animals and the wounds created and say which did which.

Most petiole make conclusions based on insufficient data, with insufficient information, based on small sample sizes, and little to no understand of what they are looking at, with massive amounts of bias.

The amount of people that have killed anough to find the most destructive bullet (read: best killing) projectiles in 6.5 versus 7mm, let alone in .224/.243/etc, and used all of the bullets and calibers to kill large numbers of animals is hopelessly, laughably small. That is why people believe there is some observable difference between any of them.


What 6.5cm gives the market over the 7mm-08 is factory, world class ammo and rifles chambered correctly for that round, with equal hits in the field with measurably less recoil- that is felt and seen with spotting one’s own impacts. At the same recoil level, the 6.5 offers measurably higher hit rates than 7mm’s.

35? What did you do after lunch and on weekends? Kidding as I would run out of deer in about 3 weeks.
I haven't killed triple digits of large game (for here) animals with 224 or 6.5, but I have with 22lr. I'm not steady enough to be trying that in the last 5 years.
I don't think I was replying to you but another poster. You are correct about finding the right bullet for your rifle. Experience makes a difference, as does confidence in your equipment.
Many folks have bad experience with the wrong bullets and/or bad shots from a 6.5, as they do from many calibers.
I was relaying my perceived experiences on whitetails.
I'm not soured on the 6.5 Creed. Actually just set up the 3rd one...but I still prefer the 7mm-08.
So many creeds for sale out there that I can find significantly better prices on them.

 

[bcv]

Wait…you took a less than ideal shot, it busted a leg, took out both lungs and the heart and you ended up with a dead animal? And you are claiming it didn’t perform?

What the hell is wrong with people? You win the internet for stupid comment of the day good sir!!

I'm not going to argue on the internet with the 6.5 fanboys.
I'm not going to go into all the details of lack of blood in 3 animals and under performance I found after building what I thought would be a great rifle.
Continue to cherry pick what people post and carry on.

 

[Newtosavage]

I didn’t start this thread to bash any cartridge. I am being honest when I ask what I’m missing with the 6.5’s - and not just the CM. PRC numbers don’t look any better than 7-08 or .284 Win to me.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I didn’t start this thread to bash any cartridge. I am being honest when I ask what I’m missing with the 6.5’s - and not just the CM. PRC numbers don’t look any better than 7-08 or .284 Win to me.

What numbers are you looking at?

 

[Newtosavage]

What numbers are you looking at?

BC and velocity

 

[ETtikka]

Efficiency

 

[WeiserBucks]

BC and velocity

.264'' 140 Berger G1 .606
.284'' 140 Berger G1 .500



See the difference? 26.66% higher in favor of the 6.5, or do you consider 26% insignificant?

Velocity is similar enough between the Creed, 7-08 and 284 Win.

 

[KenLee]

I agree with everything you said except for the recoil. To me it’s barely a noticeable difference between the CM and 7-08

I truly can't tell a difference in recoil running the 120 NBT side by side in 8 pound rigs.

 

[Formidilosus]

I agree with everything you said except for the recoil. To me it’s barely a noticeable difference between the CM and 7-08

It’s recoil at like ballistics. You using monos severally compromises external ballistics. In that case there is only a marginal difference between the 6.5cm and 7mm-08.

Using Barnes LRX 127gr in 6.5cm versus the same BC Barnes LRX in 7mm (139gr) they have identical Manx MV, with the 6.5cm having 15% less recoil. You can argue that 15% more recoil doesn’t matter, and it may not if you are not stretching or pushing any boundaries and are just shooting easy shots, but 15% recoil increase the shooting difficulty- no one in competition where hit rates matter want anything to do with 15% more recoil.


The big difference in what the 6.5cm and 6cm offers that no 243, 260, or 7mm-08 can remotely match is factory guns and ammo matched to each other that shoot wonderfully with the best bullets made. This is not hard to understand, I’m not sure how anyone with critical thinking skills at all can not understand that. If someone doesn’t buy factory and doesn’t care at all about factory ammo, and don’t care about recoil- then it doesn’t matter.

 

[Formidilosus]

35? What did you do after lunch and on weekends? Kidding as I would run out of deer in about 3 weeks.
I haven't killed triple digits of large game (for here) animals with 224 or 6.5, but I have with 22lr. I'm not steady enough to be trying that in the last 5 years.
I don't think I was replying to you but another poster. You are correct about finding the right bullet for your rifle. Experience makes a difference, as does confidence in your equipment.
Many folks have bad experience with the wrong bullets and/or bad shots from a 6.5, as they do from many calibers.
I was relaying my perceived experiences on whitetails.
I'm not soured on the 6.5 Creed. Actually just set up the 3rd one...but I still prefer the 7mm-08.
So many creeds for sale out there that I can find significantly better prices on them.

I don’t disagree with anything you wrote above, and I wasn’t personally saying anything about you in my first post. Your post was just an example of things most people believe- there’s some major differences in terminal performance between cartridges- that I used it to address that point. There really aren’t noticeable differences between them.

 

[MuleyFever]

.

The big difference in what the 6.5cm and 6cm offers that no 243, 260, or 7mm-08 can remotely match is factory guns and ammo matched to each other that shoot wonderfully with the best bullets made. This is not hard to understand, I’m not sure how anyone with critical thinking skills at all can not understand that. If someone doesn’t buy factory and doesn’t care at all about factory ammo, and don’t care about recoil- then it doesn’t matter.

This is the sole reason I am looking for a 6cm or 6.5cm. Searching for factory ammo for 7-08 or 243 you see very few options. The CM's have a lot of good factory ammo available.

 

[Newtosavage]

It’s recoil at like ballistics. You using monos severally compromises external ballistics. In that case there is only a marginal difference between the 6.5cm and 7mm-08.

Using Barnes LRX 127gr in 6.5cm versus the same BC Barnes LRX in 7mm (139gr) they have identical Manx MV, with the 6.5cm having 15% less recoil. You can argue that 15% more recoil doesn’t matter, and it may not if you are not stretching or pushing any boundaries and are just shooting easy shots, but 15% recoil increase the shooting difficulty- no one in competition where hit rates matter want anything to do with 15% more recoil.


The big difference in what the 6.5cm and 6cm offers that no 243, 260, or 7mm-08 can remotely match is factory guns and ammo matched to each other that shoot wonderfully with the best bullets made. This is not hard to understand, I’m not sure how anyone with critical thinking skills at all can not understand that. If someone doesn’t buy factory and doesn’t care at all about factory ammo, and don’t care about recoil- then it doesn’t matter.

I think you might have critical thinking skills confused with the knowledge of specific, unique information. I don’t care about factory ammo or any amount of recoil below 20 ft lbs so I guess as you sa, it doesn’t matter to me.

 

[Newtosavage]

.

This is the sole reason I am looking for a 6cm or 6.5cm. Searching for factory ammo for 7-08 or 243 you see very few options. The CM's have a lot of good factory ammo available.

Yes, these days that’s a clear advantage