Stone Sheep hunt questions

[recurveman]

The guy did not ask WHO to go with, he asked what questions to ask the outfitter...

If you are bowhunting, you better ask how many bow hunters they have taken, if they like taking bow hunters, and which of their guides LIKE taking bow hunters. You will find not many do and if you are a stick bow shooter it will be even less.

Asking for the success rate of bow hunters is pointless. Better question would be do they have particular areas within their guide area that are setup better for bow hunters than others.

Another good question to ask is how much resident pressure their area gets. Dropping $50,000 and then having to fight thru residents to get to “your” ram is not very appealing to me. And what happens if you get into that situation and what they do to avoid it. Big 9 that would be my very first question.

The best Stone sheep outfitters don’t advertise and don’t have any problem booking clients. You are probably not going to get that information on any website. Tough to even get that at the WSF or GSC Ovis conventions but those would be good places to start.

Thanks for the response. I didn't realize that residents could hunt in the same area as the outfitters. Not sure why I assumed that since I live in AZ and it's all public land with plenty of ourfitters. I'm not against using a bow but it isn't a must. I gave up shooting recurves many years ago. My body and fingers can't do it anymore.

The reason I didn't ask WHO is because every person is looking for a different experience (you know and understand that). I might want something completely different than a guy that had a great time with a different outfitter. So good questions will probably be a better option than which outfitter to use.

 

[KHntr]

I'm a Northern BC resident, and I am a stone hunter. And there are some places with some really bad blood between outfitters and residents. THAT would be my first question.

And asking who has had bow hunters previously, and has terrain conducive to bowhunting would be right up there as well. Have to remember that outfitters can sell as many sheep hunts as they want every year, but they are only allowed to kill up to their allotment quota. In some places a bowhunter is simply an extra $35-50k where they don't have to worry about him killing a ram that would have otherwise gotten a repeat customer because the terrain simply won't let you get close enough.....

If you are open to rifle hunting them, then figure out what your personal limitations are and go from there. Scared of horses? Scared of ugly steep trails and deep fast rivers while on horseback? Scared of scary steep ground? Not in shape? Scared of light planes? Have time limitations where you would have to be back by xxx date or lose your job? (That one is a big deal, I know more than a few guys, and have personally spent extra days, waiting for the rivers to go down enough to cross "safely").
If you don't have any personal limitations, then roll with the questions around sheep densities (are you going to see lots of sheep - ie ewes and lambs and only a few rams), quality of rams taken (whats average length and base - big difference between 12" bases and 14"+ bases and 34" curl vs 40" curl), harvest success rates (ie 80% of our hunters had opportunities at rams - but they were all under 36"... or 50% of our hunters killed rams over 38"). Ask about age classes - are they killing predominantly 8yr old rams? Or are they killing 12yr olds? If they are consistently killing old rams that will tell you volumes about pressure and sheep densities.

If you can track down Clay Lancaster on social media (I would be pretty surprised if he wasn't a member here actually...) he is a pretty good guy to talk to and straight up.

 

[recurveman]

Khntr - Personal limitations......Well we all have them. I put a few thousand miles on the back of a horse and I'm still not nuts about being on one while in steep country. Going up isn't bad. Going down really sucks. I work for myself so time isn't a limiting factor. I can adjust that part of the equation as needed. Lots of interesting questions that I need to ask some outfitters.

I'm really trying to find a hunt that is awesome and I don't walk away saying "I wish I would have known that before the hunt". Guess that is the reason I'm asking for questions.

Thanks for the input. Some very valuable information in that post.

 

[Old and gray]

I would look to go to the Yukon. With covid causing a year off or possibly two you might be many years out before being able to hunt. The BC quota system and the resident pressure would make me head further north. It worked out good for me several years ago.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Something else for you to think about before calling outfitters and confirming their availability is, do you go on the first hunt where you are only able to take a stone, or do you go on a later hunt when you can also add goat, moose, caribou, elk, or bear for a nominal trophy fee. The add-on species are usually a great value vs. paying for a separate trip and hunt for those individual species, but, I wonder if you are not pressured (not necessarily by the guide/outfitter, but by yourself as well) to take the first legal ram you see when you have other tags in your pocket....

 

[wildwilderness]

As mentioned you need to answer a couple of your own questions as well- If you are not committed 100% to bowhunting and going home empty, then forget about it. Not worth the hassle of hauling a bow around unless you use it As explained it is exponentially harder to take a bowhunter. That will be very limiting on your options for an outfitter AND most importantly which guide is assigned to you and dates available.

Horses make a big difference on the physical nature of the hunt. Not everyone offers it so that will also play in. If you know you are in sheep shape? then no worries, otherwise it would be worth getting horses to cover more ground and actually get in position to shoot a ram.

How Remote do you want to be? Will seeing other hunters bother you? Usually the high density sheep areas will attract Residents for a reason! more sheep! What about trophy quality? I know most non-BC residents will only get one Stone and don't think about size. They just want to get one! in the long run though, it wouldn't hurt if that 1 stone is an awesome 10yr+ ram! however some of the biggest rams are in low density hard to reach spots, are you OK going home empty handed?

Backpack hunts vs lodge and horses will affect physical requirements as well as food options and gear selection. A backpack hunt may be less cost up front, but you may spend thousands on upgrading your gear to go ultralight.

Answer the questions first for yourself, then you will know what to ask the outfitters to see who will be the best fit for you.

 

[recurveman]

Something else for you to think about before calling outfitters and confirming their availability is, do you go on the first hunt where you are only able to take a stone, or do you go on a later hunt when you can also add goat, moose, caribou, elk, or bear for a nominal trophy fee. The add-on species are usually a great value vs. paying for a separate trip and hunt for those individual species, but, I wonder if you are not pressured (not necessarily by the guide/outfitter, but by yourself as well) to take the first legal ram you see when you have other tags in your pocket....

Great point. I didn't really think of that. So what you are telling me is there is a way to spend even more money. Thought that was impossible to spend more.

 

[recurveman]

As mentioned you need to answer a couple of your own questions as well- If you are not committed 100% to bowhunting and going home empty, then forget about it. Not worth the hassle of hauling a bow around unless you use it As explained it is exponentially harder to take a bowhunter. That will be very limiting on your options for an outfitter AND most importantly which guide is assigned to you and dates available.

Horses make a big difference on the physical nature of the hunt. Not everyone offers it so that will also play in. If you know you are in sheep shape? then no worries, otherwise it would be worth getting horses to cover more ground and actually get in position to shoot a ram.

How Remote do you want to be? Will seeing other hunters bother you? Usually the high density sheep areas will attract Residents for a reason! more sheep! What about trophy quality? I know most non-BC residents will only get one Stone and don't think about size. They just want to get one! in the long run though, it wouldn't hurt if that 1 stone is an awesome 10yr+ ram! however some of the biggest rams are in low density hard to reach spots, are you OK going home empty handed?

Backpack hunts vs lodge and horses will affect physical requirements as well as food options and gear selection. A backpack hunt may be less cost up front, but you may spend thousands on upgrading your gear to go ultralight.

Answer the questions first for yourself, then you will know what to ask the outfitters to see who will be the best fit for you.

yeah I'm probably leaning towards using a rifle. I'm not a big fan of going home empty handed. Been on hunts where that has happened but on the bigger hunts I really would like to find a great animal to put on the wall. I'm not worried about being remote. I'm comfortable being close to town or being super remote. I've got all the ultralight backpack gear already and I don't need the fancy food options. Did a solo backcountry backpack hunt a few years ago for 12 days and thought it was a blast.....but lots of work too. I do like the idea of horses in most cases. Being in sheep shape is good but having a horse will make getting around easier......sometimes.....owned horses and they come with a set of challenges too.

Lots of great thoughts. Thanks

 

[alaska_bou]

I would encourage you to be careful when asking about success rates. One outfitter whom I won't mention (and believe they may have sold to new owners a few years ago) would like to tell perspective clients "last year we had a quota of 9 and harvested 9 rams" suggesting a 100% success rate. What he failed to mention was that they had to book 13 hunters to fill those 9 tags on quota.

For example; I met a guy in a hunting camp once who booked a $40,000 stone sheep hunt and was flown into an area with few sheep and zero rams. His guide said he could not call to relocate "because of the high cost of satellite phone air time" so the guide probably knew it was a wild goose chase from the beginning. The outfitter, more than likely, intentionally oversold his quota and had higher than expected success rates with the earlier hunters. This poor guy went home without a sheep and had to file a lawsuit to get his $15,000 trophy fee refunded that was in his contract but never paid back.

You should also beware of those smaller sheep outfits others on this thread have mentioned that may receive a very small quota of 1 to 2 tags every few years. Stone sheep are purely a bonus on those hunts (by pure luck) and should never be the priority animal.

Big Nine would also be my first choice.

 

[downsouth175]

Big Nine is definitely the big name out there, but with the new owners you are also going to be paying an absolute premium. From what I've heard in the sheep hunting rumor mill they've definitely ruffled some feathers with some of their old guides and pilots as well. I've also talked with a few individuals that have hunted with them recently and it sounds like the BC resident hunters are keying in on that area more and more, for what that's all worth.

There's a lot of good information in this thread. The amount of money involved in a stone hunt is spooky. I'd try to talk to as many people that have actually hunted them that you can. Your outfitter list will narrow itself down after a few of those conversations. Good luck.

 

[alaska_bou]

What did Big Nine raise their price to?

 

[wyosteve]

When I picked up a brochure at the Sheep Show last Jan., it was $60k and going to $70k this year I believe.

 

[bushguy]

60-70k ?
wow.
and whats the exchange rate ?
and travel and tips, licenses,etc.
wow.

 

[Steve O]

Outfitters stopped giving a break with the exchange rate the last time the Canadian dollar was a over the US dollar. 10-15 years ago. Once we were back on the plus side the exchange rate discount disappeared. Bet your bottom dollar if we ever go below them again the exchange rate premium will reappear though...

Stones are definitely getting to Desert territory. Glad I have mine. I can’t even afford a Dall anymore. Close on a few US Bighorn tags amd just helped a buddy in AZ get his Desert last month so I’m pretty content.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Interesting reading on this thread, especially on the last page:

Stone Sheep Help

I've been thinking a lot about going on a stone sheep hunt in British Columbia or the Yukon. I'm not getting any younger, and the price of these hunts is becoming astronomical. If I am going to do it, I need to do it soon. Most outfitters book two to three years out, and honestly that is...

www.longrangehunting.com

 

[lcpaul22]

I am a bc resident stone hunter. I do my work from a backpack and boots. I am sending you a pm with some suggestions.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

 

[idig4au]

When I picked up a brochure at the Sheep Show last Jan., it was $60k and going to $70k this year I believe.

Their website says $40k to $50k depending booking strategy....

 

[alaska_bou]

I wonder if the new owners of Big 9 include the same infamous dentist from Anchorage who is leading the group Resident Hunters of Alaska that are trying to "unapologetically" strip non-resident hunting opportunities?

 

[recurveman]

I've got to tell you that the PM's I'm getting are very, very interesting. When I started to research booking a stone hunt I thought I would easily find 2-5 outfits that were top notch and find one that fit my needs. Well that is really far from reality. I don't know if I've ever seen an animal where everyone has such a strong opinion about who you should (or shouldn't) book with.

Very interesting and I'm learning a ton. Please keep the PM's and information coming.

 

[KHntr]

There are definitely some good outfitters out there for sure. You'll find one that works for you if you do the research.

Ask directly about resident hunter conflicts (on the phone, not over an email) and evaluate the answers you get. Pick an outfitter that gives you the feeling that he is being straight up and honest about it regardless of the actual answer you get. Outfitters that blow it off as being an non issue or feel evasive in their answers are the ones that likely have ongoing battles with residents. That is probably a situation you want to avoid if this is a once in a lifetime experience for you. Having to race someone to a ram isn't likely going to be a great memory.