Stone sheep beware

[Rubicon500]

Read the first sentence "Long time follower of this site and forgot my password from before."
And thought i'm pretty sure it is WAY easier to use forgot password than it is to hunt Stone sheep!

Or he could have changed his email provider not a hard concept , the outfit he’s talking about has done a complete 180 from the previous ownership group.

 

[crgchck]

Long time follower of this site and forgot my password from before. As most of you know by now stone sheep have become one of the hardest hunts to fulfill due to physical requirements, financial commitment and limited availability on sheep in general. Please keep in mind that I am a person who seldom complains and I have no issue with coming home empty handed on hunts if I am giving it all I can. I spend 40+ nights a year doing solo backpack trips and hunts. This is not just me having issues. I know for a fact that most of the hunters would never return to this outfit even if they were successful. I’m choosing not to name the outfitter as I hope most people will do their research extensively and ask for several references prior to booking.

In summary for those who don’t want the long version.
-paid for horseback hunt and forced to backpack for 17 days on first year due poor management (plenty of horses to ride) and lack of guides
-given guide who had never guided the area or been in the area (great guide but no experience in area)
-disgruntled ex owner/ex crew had allegedly disclosed to residents better areas to find rams (we ran into several residents)
-forced to ration food for 5 days as ex outfitter had left us after giving us a boat ride into area. Owner had no other person to run boat and didn’t want to pay for a charter boat.
- Ran out of food for several days and strung out on food drop due to owner being unwilling to pay for a food drop
-forced to stay in the area 12 days longer due to no boat ride available back to camp to get horses (3-4 day walk to main camp)
-given 16 year old packer who couldn’t pack his own weight and offered zero benefit to hunt. Who spent most days in camp eating all of our food and was in tears while he was on the trail.
-zero opportunity on legal rams in 32 days
-owner falsely advertises success rates and includes confiscated rams into their success rates
-owner has had three outfitters operate concession in three years and at least two of those have chose to separate themselves from the owner (owners girlfriend now has outfitter license to operate area and knows very little about hunting, horses and outfitter logistics)
-regrettably paid outfitter (even after not receiving a horseback hunt that I had paid for) to return the following year (met cool guide and wrangler but they also chose to leave and will not come back)
-owner takes zero accountability and says he has no control what his outfitters chose to do
-during second trip the existing outfitter parted with owner. Most all of the crew will not be returning.
-I’m nearly 6 figures into this one animal
-owner continues to falsely advertise success rates and includes confiscated rams into the “success rates”
I have had the experience over the last two years of putting in over 32 days on these animals with a once reputable outfitter prior to sale. I wanted to share my experience because I know most people could be put in the same situation as me. There has been several outfits changing hands in the stone sheep world and prices have gone crazy in just a few years.

I booked my sheep hunt in 2019, with Covid the original family who had run the outfit chose to sell. Come 2021 it was iffy if the hunt was going to be a go or not. A month or so prior to the hunt we had been given the green light. I got vaccinated and was making final preparations. Upon arrival my outfitter picked me up and told me he was leaving the operation due to disagreements with the owner. He said we would be taking a new outfitter into the area the next day to take over and that I shouldn’t worry as I would have a good hunt still. He had some disagreements with the owner and the owner had fired his help and also fired the old owner who knew the area and the horses. This guy was decent to me and said he had a hunt to finish up and then he was heading out. He helped get us into our area as he was the only one who could drive the jet boat.

Upon arrival to camp I could sense the tension. Several members of the crew had quit over the summer. As I booked a horseback hunt I had expected to be riding out of camp. Instead we were told we would be backpacking for the first 5 days and then we would return to camp and get horses if needed. I met my guide who had never guided the area and my packer who was a nice kid but had never been on a backpacking trip as a packer.

We packed for 5 days planning on a short trip into a corner of the property. Ended up very early on into this trip realizing the packer was unfit for this position and had to deal with him in tears several times a day and just not mentally fit for this hunt (nice kid who should have never been put in this position).

We ended up being stuck in this area for the duration of my hunt. We hunted hard every day and covered some amazing country. In all we out over 135 foot miles down and broke trail on places that hadn’t been seen in what I would assume to be years. We tried making the best of our situation even though my guide and I knew we had a major disadvantage by not being on horses.

The outfitter who no longer runs the operation called and said it would be best if I come back the following year as some more of the crew had quit mid season due to disagreements with the owner. The owner told me I would need to come back this season in order to not have to pay half of the hunt cost. He also told me he would have never sold the hunt to me for what the old owner did (I paid full price).

I argued that I didn’t think it was fair to have to pay again even though I had already paid for a horseback hunt with an experienced guide and packer. He told me that this was something he had no control over.

During my time in the area we ran into at least a dozen residents. Some who were actually ex guides of the area, even they were disappointed in the lack of sheep in general and told me stories about the good old days in the area. Some of the more bitter guides that had left earlier in the season had told their resident friends where sheep are generally found as well. I experienced this first hand, not hearsay.

To be continued

Hey guys, I didn’t expect to get this many views this quick. I don’t know what the site rules are.

I’ll accept the criticism for going with them again, but this was a once in a lifetime hunt. The outfitter who took it over gave me a hundred percent confidence that I would have a good experience on my second trip. So rather than paying for a hunt with a new outfitter (I couldn’t spend that money twice) I chose to go back and take my chances. The sad reality is this is a once in a lifetime experience and I just hope others will do more research on these outfitters.

There are probably no less than a hundred people who know what outfitter this is. I’m happy to respond to a private message regarding this.

Sheep will be sheep

 

[Axlrod]

Or he could have changed his email provider not a hard concept , the outfit he’s talking about has done a complete 180 from the previous ownership group.

Or he could have changed his email provider not a hard concept , the outfit he’s talking about has done a complete 180 from the previous ownership group.

What outfit??
They did a 180 and he signed again??
I don't know anymore than the day before I ever saw this thread. It's hard to believe people on the internet. It's way harder to believe new comers with sketchy stories and few details. Just sayin...

 

[KUDU1]

Thanks for the info- so it looks like 30% not 50% and the rest of the quotas would be affected by that. Does allow small leeway if an “extra” sheep is shot.

I went on a BC stone hunt last year that had been booked since Covid. I was able to learn first hand from the actual owners, who I have personally known for a while since college, how it works in BC and the limitations they have to deal with.

Yes a lot of happy hunters will get their ram! Just giving advice to not be the ones who get skunked or taken for an expensive camping trip!

Congrats on the nice ram!

looks like you have some knowledge on the BC stone quota, do you know if there is a way to view each outfitters given quota for their area? Not sure if that is public knowledge, just trying to find a way to verify how many sheep could be left with an outfitter prior to booking a hunt.

thanks

 

[SagehunterD]

Or he could have changed his email provider not a hard concept , the outfit he’s talking about has done a complete 180 from the previous ownership group.

It’s pretty easy to remember why I forgot my password in the first place! Just a hunter sharing my opinion on the run around outfits operating for stone sheep now.

 

[CRJR45]

What outfit??
They did a 180 and he signed again??
I don't know anymore than the day before I ever saw this thread. It's hard to believe people on the internet. It's way harder to believe new comers with sketchy stories and few details. Just sayin...

Right , he never came out and said anything about who to avoid , but he is willing to tell you who to use . Just only in a PM .
And he calls me low class , LOL

 

[SagehunterD]

Right , he never came out and said anything about who to avoid , but he is willing to tell you who to use . Just only in a PM .
And he calls me low class , LOL

Didn’t call you low class, said you have no class by sharing a screenshot. I would say most everyone would agree on that. I’ve received a pile of messages from guys who have been burned by this same outfit.

Don’t need or care about your validation. When you messaged me stating you had intentions to book a stone hunt in ‘25. I took you serious, but I’m guessing you just used that to bait me. Good luck with life and all of your future hunts!

 

[CRJR45]

Didn’t call you low class, said you have no class by sharing a screenshot. I would say most everyone would agree on that. I’ve received a pile of messages from guys who have been burned by this same outfit.

Don’t need or care about your validation. When you messaged me stating you had intentions to book a stone hunt in ‘25. I took you serious, but I’m guessing you just used that to bait me. Good luck with life and all of your future hunts!

The way I see it , if you can't come out and say it on the thread , it's no better than talking behind someone's back .
I will always tell the truth and be up front , if I have something bad to say about you , or anyone for that matter , you/they will hear it from me first .
It's called being an adult .
What you've done in this thread is the definition of no class , IMO , but that's just me .

Have a nice life .

 

[buzzy]

Jesus, if you can’t take the time to DM someone asking for the outfitter than you don’t deserve to know who he’s talking about. Big freaking deal not wanting to plaster it here. Now if he’s not willing to say the outfitter in private then screw him.

And if you plaster your private conversation here afterwards that’s low class all the way.

 

[CRJR45]

Two things -

First , what's the difference if he named the outfitter in his first post or if everyone who read his post DM'ed him and he named the outfitter by DM ?

Either way it's the same thing .

Second , in our conversation he seemed more intent on telling me who I should book a hunt with rather than who I should avoid .

How does him going on two terrible hunts qualify him to be giving out recommendations on who to hunt with ?

Seems like his whole agenda was just that , directing potential hunters to a outfitter .

 

[buzzy]

One reason is to not get burned like this. I have seen people defend known poachers on these forums giving all kinds of reasons why the poster has other motives and is just a sore hunter. To me it lends some credence that they had a legitimate issue when they don’t paste the outfitter all over the place but to each his own.

And you are correct that the OP has little credibility to be recommending someone else but leave it at that and move on. He told you the outfitter that he had a bad hunt with and that’s all that should be of importance. I could think of many other avenues than this scenario to be pushing an outfitter recommendation but maybe that’s a new way to be advertising.

 

[CRJR45]

OK

 

[alexanderg23]

Didn’t call you low class, said you have no class by sharing a screenshot. I would say most everyone would agree on that. I’ve received a pile of messages from guys who have been burned by this same outfit.

Don’t need or care about your validation. When you messaged me stating you had intentions to book a stone hunt in ‘25. I took you serious, but I’m guessing you just used that to bait me. Good luck with life and all of your future hunts!

You owe me 5 minutes.

 

[bojangles808]

tagged for when OP names the outfitter

 

[thedutchtouch]

tagged for when OP names the outfitter

Read page 2

 

[Mac-Diddy]

Hey guys, I didn’t expect to get this many views this quick. I don’t know what the site rules are.

I’ll accept the criticism for going with them again, but this was a once in a lifetime hunt. The outfitter who took it over gave me a hundred percent confidence that I would have a good experience on my second trip. So rather than paying for a hunt with a new outfitter (I couldn’t spend that money twice) I chose to go back and take my chances. The sad reality is this is a once in a lifetime experience and I just hope others will do more research on these outfitters.

There are probably no less than a hundred people who know what outfitter this is. I’m happy to respond to a private message regarding this.

Would love to get the outfitters name, if you can DM me please?