SagehunterD
FNG
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2023
- Messages
- 14
Long time follower of this site and forgot my password from before. As most of you know by now stone sheep have become one of the hardest hunts to fulfill due to physical requirements, financial commitment and limited availability on sheep in general. Please keep in mind that I am a person who seldom complains and I have no issue with coming home empty handed on hunts if I am giving it all I can. I spend 40+ nights a year doing solo backpack trips and hunts. This is not just me having issues. I know for a fact that most of the hunters would never return to this outfit even if they were successful. I’m choosing not to name the outfitter as I hope most people will do their research extensively and ask for several references prior to booking.
In summary for those who don’t want the long version.
-paid for horseback hunt and forced to backpack for 17 days on first year due poor management (plenty of horses to ride) and lack of guides
-given guide who had never guided the area or been in the area (great guide but no experience in area)
-disgruntled ex owner/ex crew had allegedly disclosed to residents better areas to find rams (we ran into several residents)
-forced to ration food for 5 days as ex outfitter had left us after giving us a boat ride into area. Owner had no other person to run boat and didn’t want to pay for a charter boat.
- Ran out of food for several days and strung out on food drop due to owner being unwilling to pay for a food drop
-forced to stay in the area 12 days longer due to no boat ride available back to camp to get horses (3-4 day walk to main camp)
-given 16 year old packer who couldn’t pack his own weight and offered zero benefit to hunt. Who spent most days in camp eating all of our food and was in tears while he was on the trail.
-zero opportunity on legal rams in 32 days
-owner falsely advertises success rates and includes confiscated rams into their success rates
-owner has had three outfitters operate concession in three years and at least two of those have chose to separate themselves from the owner (owners girlfriend now has outfitter license to operate area and knows very little about hunting, horses and outfitter logistics)
-regrettably paid outfitter (even after not receiving a horseback hunt that I had paid for) to return the following year (met cool guide and wrangler but they also chose to leave and will not come back)
-owner takes zero accountability and says he has no control what his outfitters chose to do
-during second trip the existing outfitter parted with owner. Most all of the crew will not be returning.
-I’m nearly 6 figures into this one animal
-owner continues to falsely advertise success rates and includes confiscated rams into the “success rates”
I have had the experience over the last two years of putting in over 32 days on these animals with a once reputable outfitter prior to sale. I wanted to share my experience because I know most people could be put in the same situation as me. There has been several outfits changing hands in the stone sheep world and prices have gone crazy in just a few years.
I booked my sheep hunt in 2019, with Covid the original family who had run the outfit chose to sell. Come 2021 it was iffy if the hunt was going to be a go or not. A month or so prior to the hunt we had been given the green light. I got vaccinated and was making final preparations. Upon arrival my outfitter picked me up and told me he was leaving the operation due to disagreements with the owner. He said we would be taking a new outfitter into the area the next day to take over and that I shouldn’t worry as I would have a good hunt still. He had some disagreements with the owner and the owner had fired his help and also fired the old owner who knew the area and the horses. This guy was decent to me and said he had a hunt to finish up and then he was heading out. He helped get us into our area as he was the only one who could drive the jet boat.
Upon arrival to camp I could sense the tension. Several members of the crew had quit over the summer. As I booked a horseback hunt I had expected to be riding out of camp. Instead we were told we would be backpacking for the first 5 days and then we would return to camp and get horses if needed. I met my guide who had never guided the area and my packer who was a nice kid but had never been on a backpacking trip as a packer.
We packed for 5 days planning on a short trip into a corner of the property. Ended up very early on into this trip realizing the packer was unfit for this position and had to deal with him in tears several times a day and just not mentally fit for this hunt (nice kid who should have never been put in this position).
We ended up being stuck in this area for the duration of my hunt. We hunted hard every day and covered some amazing country. In all we out over 135 foot miles down and broke trail on places that hadn’t been seen in what I would assume to be years. We tried making the best of our situation even though my guide and I knew we had a major disadvantage by not being on horses.
The outfitter who no longer runs the operation called and said it would be best if I come back the following year as some more of the crew had quit mid season due to disagreements with the owner. The owner told me I would need to come back this season in order to not have to pay half of the hunt cost. He also told me he would have never sold the hunt to me for what the old owner did (I paid full price).
I argued that I didn’t think it was fair to have to pay again even though I had already paid for a horseback hunt with an experienced guide and packer. He told me that this was something he had no control over.
During my time in the area we ran into at least a dozen residents. Some who were actually ex guides of the area, even they were disappointed in the lack of sheep in general and told me stories about the good old days in the area. Some of the more bitter guides that had left earlier in the season had told their resident friends where sheep are generally found as well. I experienced this first hand, not hearsay.
To be continued…
In summary for those who don’t want the long version.
-paid for horseback hunt and forced to backpack for 17 days on first year due poor management (plenty of horses to ride) and lack of guides
-given guide who had never guided the area or been in the area (great guide but no experience in area)
-disgruntled ex owner/ex crew had allegedly disclosed to residents better areas to find rams (we ran into several residents)
-forced to ration food for 5 days as ex outfitter had left us after giving us a boat ride into area. Owner had no other person to run boat and didn’t want to pay for a charter boat.
- Ran out of food for several days and strung out on food drop due to owner being unwilling to pay for a food drop
-forced to stay in the area 12 days longer due to no boat ride available back to camp to get horses (3-4 day walk to main camp)
-given 16 year old packer who couldn’t pack his own weight and offered zero benefit to hunt. Who spent most days in camp eating all of our food and was in tears while he was on the trail.
-zero opportunity on legal rams in 32 days
-owner falsely advertises success rates and includes confiscated rams into their success rates
-owner has had three outfitters operate concession in three years and at least two of those have chose to separate themselves from the owner (owners girlfriend now has outfitter license to operate area and knows very little about hunting, horses and outfitter logistics)
-regrettably paid outfitter (even after not receiving a horseback hunt that I had paid for) to return the following year (met cool guide and wrangler but they also chose to leave and will not come back)
-owner takes zero accountability and says he has no control what his outfitters chose to do
-during second trip the existing outfitter parted with owner. Most all of the crew will not be returning.
-I’m nearly 6 figures into this one animal
-owner continues to falsely advertise success rates and includes confiscated rams into the “success rates”
I have had the experience over the last two years of putting in over 32 days on these animals with a once reputable outfitter prior to sale. I wanted to share my experience because I know most people could be put in the same situation as me. There has been several outfits changing hands in the stone sheep world and prices have gone crazy in just a few years.
I booked my sheep hunt in 2019, with Covid the original family who had run the outfit chose to sell. Come 2021 it was iffy if the hunt was going to be a go or not. A month or so prior to the hunt we had been given the green light. I got vaccinated and was making final preparations. Upon arrival my outfitter picked me up and told me he was leaving the operation due to disagreements with the owner. He said we would be taking a new outfitter into the area the next day to take over and that I shouldn’t worry as I would have a good hunt still. He had some disagreements with the owner and the owner had fired his help and also fired the old owner who knew the area and the horses. This guy was decent to me and said he had a hunt to finish up and then he was heading out. He helped get us into our area as he was the only one who could drive the jet boat.
Upon arrival to camp I could sense the tension. Several members of the crew had quit over the summer. As I booked a horseback hunt I had expected to be riding out of camp. Instead we were told we would be backpacking for the first 5 days and then we would return to camp and get horses if needed. I met my guide who had never guided the area and my packer who was a nice kid but had never been on a backpacking trip as a packer.
We packed for 5 days planning on a short trip into a corner of the property. Ended up very early on into this trip realizing the packer was unfit for this position and had to deal with him in tears several times a day and just not mentally fit for this hunt (nice kid who should have never been put in this position).
We ended up being stuck in this area for the duration of my hunt. We hunted hard every day and covered some amazing country. In all we out over 135 foot miles down and broke trail on places that hadn’t been seen in what I would assume to be years. We tried making the best of our situation even though my guide and I knew we had a major disadvantage by not being on horses.
The outfitter who no longer runs the operation called and said it would be best if I come back the following year as some more of the crew had quit mid season due to disagreements with the owner. The owner told me I would need to come back this season in order to not have to pay half of the hunt cost. He also told me he would have never sold the hunt to me for what the old owner did (I paid full price).
I argued that I didn’t think it was fair to have to pay again even though I had already paid for a horseback hunt with an experienced guide and packer. He told me that this was something he had no control over.
During my time in the area we ran into at least a dozen residents. Some who were actually ex guides of the area, even they were disappointed in the lack of sheep in general and told me stories about the good old days in the area. Some of the more bitter guides that had left earlier in the season had told their resident friends where sheep are generally found as well. I experienced this first hand, not hearsay.
To be continued…
