Starting point question

[MeatBuck]

Just got into the whole reloading thing because, well, California.
Anyways I'm working on a couple loads for .270wsm and have a question.
I'm a cheapass and don't want to be shooting hundreds of rounds and buying multiple barrels for this hunting build.
Knowing that I'm already loading longer that saami specs and longer than the reloading books (I've seen) have published. 2.75?-2.78? I'm at 3.080 mag and 3.115 to lands. Seems like using the recommended minimum powder charge as a starting point be a waste of bbl life and components.
Should I be starting at the max end of the recommendation chart or what?

 

[MeatBuck]

Another thing is I've got a 1-8" 26" bbl. test bbls in book were 1-10" 24" and shorter.
Starting at mag length with these loads which puts them .035 and .105 off the lands. Will shitcan the mag and single feed if I have to jump less to get it into the sweet spot.

I've got a new chrono and a few powders to try.
Imr7828, 7828ssc, h1000, and h4831sc.
Hammer hunters in 156gr and Berger eol elite Hunter in 170gr.
Using fed red box mag primers.

 

[MeatBuck]

Also I called hammer and Berger and asked them but they literally just pull up the same info I found by myself and read it off. Neither company cared what my bbl was or what my jump was or what coal I was going with.
Is that normal or should they have taken the time to narrow down the starting powder charge a bit more?

 

[WeiserBucks]

Every rifle is different, they can't tell you exactly what's going to work the best. It's called load development for a reason, gotta figure out what's the best combination for your rifle.

 

[Sawfish]

Probably because the WSM family of cartridges was designed for magazine fed guns, and that limits the OAL. I have a 300 WSM pistol (Savage Striker), which requires the cartridges to be seated fairly deep to work through the action. Once upon a time I read somewhere that the deep seating factor was considered in the cartridge design, and did not adversely affect the operating pressure. Look at some of the data from your bullet manufacturer to glean suggestions for powder choices. I was using a Nosler 165 gr TTSX in my Striker , and Barnes surprisingly suggested RL-15 as the best powder for that bullet. It was extremely accurate. So much so, that it is still my standard load for that gun.

 

[MeatBuck]

The powders that I have were suggested by the manufacturers who I called. That's y I have them.
They just suggested starting charges for saami spec'd loads.
I'm beyond saami so do I need to waste bbl life and components by starting at the min and working up? Trying to avoid that.
Or is it safe to start towards the max charge for saami and go up from there?
Does twist rate, bbl length and seating depth effect pressure? From what I know the answer is yes.
Am I supposed to figure out how much effect those differences have by wasting bbl life and components? Or are we just calling that "load development" not "waste"?

 

[WeiserBucks]

You might call it waste, I call it learning safely. You can load your ammo however you want, but if it blows up in your face the only thing you'll learn is how expensive doctor bills are and how difficult it is to go through life without eyesight.

 

[JFK]

Uh, no. I don’t mean this in a disrespectful way, but you are attempting to push limits without mastering the basics or fully understanding how one variable impacts the other. I’m fairly new to reloading too and it’s really important to adhere to some basic safety principles. Do some experienced reloaders start above the published min charge? Sure. But for your first go round and without ever running that load through your rifle it’s smart to load at least one cartridge at min charge and work up in 1gr increments till you get to the middle range, then I go up in .5gr increments to max. Once in the middle range of the min/max load up 3-5 rounds each so you can get some rough idea of accuracy and velocity and make notes. This is doubly true if jamming the bullets as that increases pressure quickly. Very quickly with mono metal bullets as the material is harder and the gas has a harder time escaping. Which leads me to the second topic. Why are you deviating from published COL data on your first attempt at reloading? I too live in Ca, which means you are loading a copper bullet, right? In the vast majority of cases they like LOTS of jump....as in .050-.100 or more. Simply put, I’d load some up using published data and see what happens. Just remember that if you work up a safe charge at a published COL then lengthen it closer to the lands you will be increasing pressure so you’d be wise to drop down your charge and work up again. “Wasting” a few bullets and a little bit of powder is well worth it not have anything seriously bad happen to you or your rifle. Good luck and be safe.

 

[MeatBuck]

If I wanted poor performing loads id shoot factory ammo out of a factory gun.
I'm starting at mag length and working to the lands from there if it won't shoot accurately. I can always work back from mag length (but I doubt Ill need to.)
Also I don't mind the steep learning curve, I didn't buy one of them "reloading kits" from, name your favorite popular company. I bought quality reloading equipment from Redding and Sinclair and I plan to use it for building precision ammo.
I'm loosely basing my load development off panhandle precision for powder charges and Bergers vld solution as far as jump goes.
The guy at Berger did recommend starting .015 off lands and working out in .005 increments but that isn't what the Berger vld solution suggests.
Lastly more jump equals more throat burn and shorter bbl life, no?

 

[MeatBuck]

Another thing is hammer doesn't have their own recommendations, they used Nosler (I believe) and only gave a min charge.
Berger guy kept calling the bullet a 175gr even after correcting him so I'm guessing he was reading off the vld list or ?

 

[LaHunter]

How many rounds do you already have down the barrel? Many experienced competition shooters / reloaders will tell you that the barrel needs somewhere around 100ish rounds through it to 'settle down'. Being new to the whole reloading thing, I would advise that you start near the lower end of your reloading manual's recommendations and work up. Maybe just don't load as many rounds at each powder charge and make .5 grain increases until you get up to or just above the listed max load for each powder. These will not be wasted rounds down the barrel. You will be establishing your max powder charge with your type of bullet, you will learn what load(s) your rifles shoots well, and you will not damage your rifle or yourself. I use IMR7828 in my 7mm rem mag. It produces very good velocity and accuracy. One thing to be aware of is IMR 7828 can be temp sensitive at temps in the 85+ degree range. The H1000 is supposed to be a very temp stable powder, based on what I have read. I have no experience with it. H1000 can get very difficult to find, however.
Also, having a really good understanding of brass prep is very important.

Good Luck

 

[MeatBuck]

Ten.
I have new Winchester brass and once fired nosler, win, fed and rem brass fl bushing sized with .002 bump.
Most brass was bought one box at a time as factory loads over 18 yr period. I've separated it by size, as in measured with bump guage every piece and reboxed them in .001-.0015 differences.
Ive accumulated about 300 pieces all together.
I e done my new and once fired brass prep same as panhandle precision does his sept for I trimmed my unfired brass because it was way out of spec

 

[LaHunter]

One of the benefits of reloading your own ammo is consistency. The way to get consistency is to eliminate as many potential variables as possible. I am no expert, but most experienced precision reloaders will agree that mixing brass introduces the potential for variation, at a minimum. Even sorting by external dimensions does not eliminate the variation totally. Case volume is a significant variable between different manufacturers. Also, the hardness or resiliency of the brass is another variable. If you are at or near a max load, a different brand of brass possibly can lead to a pressure issue. Just be aware of this on the front end. You may be better off in the long run buying 100-200 pieces of a premium brand of brass.
Lastly, .002" shoulder bump on once fired brass, may actually be more than .002" headspace, since it usually takes multiple firings before the shoulder 'grows' to the full length of the chamber.
Hope this helps.

Good Luck

 

[bsnedeker]

If I wanted poor performing loads id shoot factory ammo out of a factory gun.
I'm starting at mag length and working to the lands from there if it won't shoot accurately. I can always work back from mag length (but I doubt Ill need to.)
Also I don't mind the steep learning curve, I didn't buy one of them "reloading kits" from, name your favorite popular company. I bought quality reloading equipment from Redding and Sinclair and I plan to use it for building precision ammo.
I'm loosely basing my load development off panhandle precision for powder charges and Bergers vld solution as far as jump goes.
The guy at Berger did recommend starting .015 off lands and working out in .005 increments but that isn't what the Berger vld solution suggests.
Lastly more jump equals more throat burn and shorter bbl life, no?

I've watched a lot of panhandle precision's load development stuff, I don't believe he ever started at max recommended load and then worked up from there. If I remember correctly he starts at about 90% of the max load and then works up from there to determine max charge. I also seem to remember him stating that he is starting at that point because he has a lot of experience and notes to go back to on the caliber he's shooting as well as the various powders and bullets he's using so he knows that his best loads are going to be closer to the max than the min charge. You don't have that experience so I would strongly recommend you take the advice up above and start by figuring out what the max load is for your given cartridge, bullet, and powder by working up from the minimum load. Safety first is a good rule to live by when dealing with explosives.

 

[Low_Sky]

MeatBuck, you're a brand new reloader asking for help to jump straight into rolling cartridges over published specifications for precision with a mixed bag of two decades worth of once fired and new bulk quality brass sorted by length. I wish you luck. Please proceed cautiously and wear eye pro.

I'm only a year ahead of you in my reloading journey, but I'll share a little anecdote from the past week. I bought dies and components to start reloading .223 Rem. I found load data in my Nosler manual, and on the powder manufacturer's website. The powder manufacturer's *starting* load was the same as the Nosler book's *max* load. I typically skew toward trusting the powder manufacturer's data, and that's the direction I went. In two increments up from their minimum I started getting pressure signs and stopped shooting. If I had only looked at the powder manufacturer's data, and started near their max charge I might have kaboomed my rifle. The loads that gave me pressure signs were wayyy below the powder manufacturer's max, but over max for that bullet and powder combo in the Nosler book. My point with all this is that in the grand scheme of things it's pretty cheap to approach a new load cautiously and work your way up. It's potentially *very* expensive to assume that one can jump straight to max charges and beyond because components and barrels are expensive.

 

[Pro953]

What’s the point of starting at max when Min may be what shoots best in your barrel? You could jump right over your sweet spot. The hottest fastest load is not always the best load.

You will kill your barrel faster chasing hot loads vs finding a consistent accurate load under max. It will also save you a lot of brass life.

Sorry, no shortcuts just lots of loading and shooting. Enjoy the ride, it’s really a ton of fun.


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[Jardo]

If you want precision Berger loads, you not even asking the right questions. Max, min, whatever.

Google ladder test. That is where you start.

Do you have a chamber length gauge? If not, how do you know if mag length isn’t jammed into the lands?

Pressure can change dramatically between unfired and once fired brass.

This is one of the unintended consequences of the CA ammo law. Lots of pikers asking for max load advice on the internet and are going to blow shit up in their face.

No offense bro but you have to crawl before you can walk. I hope I’m not sitting next to you at the range when you test a max load on once fired brass jammed into the lands.

Take it slow and work your way up on reloading. It’s very dangerous if not done properly.


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[RichP]

I always start out at the low end and work my way up in very small increments because I never want this to happen to me EVER!
Pic is not my rifle.

 

[ericwh]

I always start at min loads or 10% below max.

I'll usually work through the low charges in larger increments (say .5 gr). Then when I get to the middle charges I will switch to smaller increments (like .3gr).

If I am loading 3 cartridges per powder charge: as I work through the lower charges if velocity is lower than book or lower than desired, no ones making me shoot all 3 of each charge. Just shoot one per charge until you start getting to mid loads or an acceptable velocity and pull apart the cartridges I didn't shoot (re-use those components).

NOTE: It's a little extra work but I think it's a good idea to load all 3-5 of each charge in case things don't go as planned (like velocity is higher than expected or you get early pressure signs).

Likewise for a seating test. If I am loading 5 shot groups for a seating test and I shoot 3 and it's bad, save the other 2 shots to tear apart.

I also start with the recommended jump for the bullet - .050" for lead free. .010"-.020" for lead.

I wouldn't mix headstamps

 

[ericwh]

I've got a new chrono and a few powders to try.
Imr7828, 7828ssc, h1000, and h4831sc.
Hammer hunters in 156gr and Berger eol elite Hunter in 170gr.
Using fed red box mag primers.

Do you have enough powder and bullets, of the same lot, to shoot 50-100 in development and have enough left over to load however many cartridges you want to end up with?

Honestly I just pick a primer, a popular powder for the cartridge, and a bullet and go with it. If the bullet doesn't work out sell them and try a different one.