Single Sight Pin

[JustCortisol]

My prior plan this season was to be able to take shots at least up to 15 yards and likely 20 depending on how the next month of practice goes.

Then I got a single sight pin to try out, and after putting on the sight pin and getting it somewhat "zeroed" wow I was almost immediately able to group shots from 25 and 30 yards like I had been from 15 yards. Based off the results from 30 minutes with a sight pin I think it would be hard to pass up on that advantage.

What are your thoughts on sight pins and what distance would you set the sight pin at?
I originally thought I would zero the pin to 20yds since I was already pretty confident in my 15 yard shot, and a sight pin would really get my 20yd shot set, but after actually using it I'm thinking maybe I should zero it to 30 yards. Anyone have input?

 

[nevadabugle]

Do what works for you! You will likely get some strong opinions from some trad guys about this not being "traditional". Don't listen to them, if it helps you be more proficient and enjoy the sport, then roll with it.

At one point in time I used a black sharpie on my riser to mark my 20 yard gap. A sight pin didn't work for me as it really distracted my concentration. I used it as a double check when I was in the heat of the moment that I had my gap set correctly. I did this after an episode where I missed three 4 points in under 20 seconds! All shots an inch high. Not my finest moment. If you want to relieve the story, I told it on South Cox podcast a few years back.

 

[nevadabugle]

To answer your other question on zeroing distance, I'm not sure. It depends a bunch on your trajectories, anchor point etc. I would think something like 23 yards, and then you would hold top of the back for 30. ( these numbers are just examples not what I think the actual distances should be) It would allow you to use it for more than one distance that way.

 

[nevadabugle]

One more thought. What's your point on distance. Because you have a pin (arrow tip) for that already. Maybe mount the sight pin half of that distance? (i.e. 44 yard point on, 22 yard sight pin).

 

[JustCortisol]

Thats a good point you mention, I do sight down my arrow and then shift focus to the target but I feel like that was to get my draw length right as much as it was about using the arrow for my sight picture (I've been recently trying to use muscle memory/feel alone to know when my draw length is right and keep my eye focused soley on the target without looking down my arrow first or really forming a "sight picture" as this can cut my draw and release time almost in half).

However regarding the "point distance" of my arrow I haven't really been shooting outside of 25 yards, so the tip of my arrow has never been the zero point at any of my ranges. Now that you mention it I feel kind of stupid for not thinking about that before. I should try a few shots from 40 yds and adjust from there to figure out exactly what distance the arrow tip zeros at. And I've thought about marking the riser to help find my aiming point at longer distances but haven't tried that yet.

Part of me likes the sight pin but part of me thinks its a quick short cut to some decent range gains but might stunt the development of my accuracy and draw and release speed over the long term. And another thing, I'm sure with some practice I could avoid this happening, but right off the bat when trying to ignore/ look right past the sight pin it was still messing with some of my 10 and 15 yd shots, I'm guessing just because the "sight picture" I've grown accustomed to was different with it.

My next task is to find the "point on distance" of my arrow tip, thank you for making me aware of that!

 

[nevadabugle]

Thats a good point you mention, I do sight down my arrow and then shift focus to the target but I feel like that was to get my draw length right as much as it was about using the arrow for my sight picture (I've been recently trying to use muscle memory/feel alone to know when my draw length is right and keep my eye focused soley on the target without looking down my arrow first or really forming a "sight picture" as this can cut my draw and release time almost in half).

However regarding the "point distance" of my arrow I haven't really been shooting outside of 25 yards, so the tip of my arrow has never been the zero point at any of my ranges. Now that you mention it I feel kind of stupid for not thinking about that before. I should try a few shots from 40 yds and adjust from there to figure out exactly what distance the arrow tip zeros at. And I've thought about marking the riser to help find my aiming point at longer distances but haven't tried that yet.

Part of me likes the sight pin but part of me thinks its a quick short cut to some decent range gains but might stunt the development of my accuracy and draw and release speed over the long term. And another thing, I'm sure with some practice I could avoid this happening, but right off the bat when trying to ignore/ look right past the sight pin it was still messing with some of my 10 and 15 yd shots, I'm guessing just because the "sight picture" I've grown accustomed to was different with it.

My next task is to find the "point on distance" of my arrow tip, thank you for making me aware of that!

Typically your largest gap ( the distance your arrow tip is below the target) will be half of your point on distance. Mine is 40 PO and 20 largest gap.

So if you can find your largest gap, and have some good method for aiming at that distance, you can just make small incremental increases in your sight picture as you get farther back, all the way to your point on.

 

[GLB]

I think it’s just fine if you want to use a sight pin on a recurve. I started with a recurve in the 70s as a teenager. We later added sights to our recurves with good results. Shortly after that most switch to the compound.

 

[JustCortisol]

One more thought. What's your point on distance. Because you have a pin (arrow tip) for that already. Maybe mount the sight pin half of that distance? (i.e. 44 yard point on, 22 yard sight pin).

Wow this was a game changer for me, thanks so much for asking me this question!

Last night I basically found the distance... at about 40yds I was putting the tip of my arrow maybe 6 inches below the target, so my real point on distance is probably somewhere around 42-45 yards. My follow through isn't consistent enough right now to be shooting accurately from 40yds but I was still getting almost half the shots on the 16" x 18" target.

I then realized at 10 yds the top edge of my sight window lines up with the target, and at 15 yds its the crook of the rounded upper corner of my sight window.

20 and 30 were tricky to find a reference at first because they align somewhere in the middle of the sight window/cutaway but I eventually noticed that at 30 yds I'm basically aiming the arrow tip one full target height below the real target, so then I just started envisioning a mirror image of the target stacked immediately below the real target and putting my arrow tip on the imaginary target. At 20yds I aim a full two targets below the real target.

I ended my session at 30 yds and the last few shots were all in probably a 6"x6" group a couple inches low and left but I was feeling really happy with that, haha I was surprised each time I released the arrow and heard it hit the target.

Also this is the first time I've shot from 30 yds and i think I'll start shooting from here as my standard distance because the extra flight time of the arrow allows me more time to see if it's a good release/follow through/arrow flight. Plenty of my shots porpoise or fish tail but plenty also fly straight, but this was the first time I've been able to actually see a few arrows spiral and cut through the air like lasers, with the difference in arrow speed also being noticeable. What a good feeling.

Also I was doing all of this without a sight pin on, and am thinking with this new sighting method I might just forego the sight pin.

Thanks again for helping me take a big step forward.

 

[nevadabugle]

Wow this was a game changer for me, thanks so much for asking me this question!

Last night I basically found the distance... at about 40yds I was putting the tip of my arrow maybe 6 inches below the target, so my real point on distance is probably somewhere around 42-45 yards. My follow through isn't consistent enough right now to be shooting accurately from 40yds but I was still getting almost half the shots on the 16" x 18" target.

I then realized at 10 yds the top edge of my sight window lines up with the target, and at 15 yds its the crook of the rounded upper corner of my sight window.

20 and 30 were tricky to find a reference at first because they align somewhere in the middle of the sight window/cutaway but I eventually noticed that at 30 yds I'm basically aiming the arrow tip one full target height below the real target, so then I just started envisioning a mirror image of the target stacked immediately below the real target and putting my arrow tip on the imaginary target. At 20yds I aim a full two targets below the real target.

I ended my session at 30 yds and the last few shots were all in probably a 6"x6" group a couple inches low and left but I was feeling really happy with that, haha I was surprised each time I released the arrow and heard it hit the target.

Also this is the first time I've shot from 30 yds and i think I'll start shooting from here as my standard distance because the extra flight time of the arrow allows me more time to see if it's a good release/follow through/arrow flight. Plenty of my shots porpoise or fish tail but plenty also fly straight, but this was the first time I've been able to actually see a few arrows spiral and cut through the air like lasers, with the difference in arrow speed also being noticeable. What a good feeling.

Also I was doing all of this without a sight pin on, and am thinking with this new sighting method I might just forego the sight pin.

Thanks again for helping me take a big step forward.

This is the way.... glad it helped.

You are basically describing a type of aiming called Gap shooting. I reccomend watching some of the origional Push Archery videos. I believe Matt talks about different aiming methods. Also a movie series called Masters of the Barebow goes into many different aiming methods in detail.

To summarize there are lots of ways to aim without a sight. Instinctive, gap, split vision, pick a point, string walking, face walking, etc. I use most of them depending on the situation and distance. If you can gain a basic understanding of them all, you can then find what works best for you and your style/distance of shooting. What works on the 3d range might be different than hunting, which might be different than aerial shooting.

Enjoy the Journey!

 

[FLS]

Sights were pretty common on “trad” bows. Lots of old Bears, Pearsons ,Hoyts etc with holes drilled in the front or back of the sight window were sights were installed. If it makes you more confident and lethal go for it.

 

[Gun]

I started w recurves in the mid 60's. When Compounds came out early 70's I got on that train for 2 yrs. Had three blowup on me during that time. I did learn how to use a sight and basic form etc while shooting indoor league.

When I went back to trad I still used a single pin. I also would use the bowstring lined up on the outside edge of the bow limb for left and right.
I set it for 20 yds and learned to compensate range accordingly. I stay within that 20 yd max. It was a deadly system and sounds complicated but I could shoot pretty quick. The brain puts it all together with practice.

Later because of too much finger pinch using split I went three under, got rid of the pin and learned instinctive. I was so so.

Then I heard about Gap shooting and have stayed with that.

You can adjust your gap with how you anchor as well. I put the tip of my ring finger in the corner of my mouth and am dead on at 20 yds with broadheads. I aim 2" lower at 10 yds. Closer is just feel/instinctive.
This is with a 43# Bear TD. Just a year and and a half out of shoulder surgery.

Before my injury I was at 55# and my dead on with a 29" draw was 17-18 yds.

By shooting a lot you learn to compensate a bit here or there depending on distance.
Good Luck and have a great season!

 

[BWlongbow]

In the mid 70's, I started out with a Ben Pearson recurve and struggled with accuracy. I ended up taping a stick match on the front of the riser for a sight pin and my accuracy really improved. I shot for months using the match for a sight pin, until my shooting form improved. After a while I was able to shoot instinctive with better accuracy. I still shoot instinctive today. So, the sight pin is a definite way to go.

 

[LostArra]

Brass sight pin on my Morrison Shawnee Arapaho recurve.
I think this can be helpful for those shooting cross eye dominant.
Trad police can take a hike.

 

[PA-R]

I agree. Lost Arra.