Sig Kilo8K ABS and Gunwerks BR4 RF Field Review

[Formidilosus]

You are quickly becoming snake oil manufacturer’s worst nighmare.

Using stuff tends to do that.

 

[Dobermann]

You are quickly becoming snake oil manufacturer’s worst nighmare.

You should hear what he has to say about their optics ...

 

[Dobermann]

You are quickly becoming snake oil manufacturer’s worst nighmare.

Wondering if we need to bring some nuance to this.

Snake oil usually refers to when someone is selling stuff that they categorically know doesn't work, and will never work - a con.

Now, while we could argue that some optics companies might fall into this category, for the others, how many just think they're following common manufacturing standards "because everyone else does" and call it good?

Should they test their stuff? Sure. Is it borderline negligent that they don't? Maybe.

But given that so many scopes work for so many people who don't dial, don't test them, are happy to rezero them every so often because "that's whats scopes do" ... and when your markup is so phenomenally high that you can afford to have a high failure rate and just send out a new scope ... it's not so surprising that they keep doing what they do. (And similar issues for rangefinders, seeing as we're talking about the problems in this thread.)

Just to be clear - I'm not excusing companies who do this, and I do expect more. I just think there's a long continuum between competent optics and ethical companies selling them, and snake oil merchants - and it can get pretty fuzzy in the middle.

 

[Formidilosus]

I just think there's a long continuum between competent optics and ethical companies selling them, and snake oil merchants - and it can get pretty fuzzy in the middle.

I would agree, and to be clear- I do not believe that I have said that about any of these companies- some of them are for sure, but the snake oils salesman to me are the “reviewers” that are given an items or items (or buy them) and they write a “review” that has no substance. I written before on the issues I’ve seen with Sig RF’s (and others), how was it magically me that found it with this one too?

 

[CBECK61]

Sigs website isn't great at explaining all the features of their RF. I'm curious if the Kilo can switch back and forth between the near range/far range like the Gunwerks does. I really liked that feature on their original rangefinder.

I also like the idea of how stream lined adding a wind vector into the RF. Does the sig have a similar feature that allows you to add a wind speed and vector into it w/o the use of a Kestrel?

Those two features in the field I think will be very useful. I also really like the front cover and the exposed sensor.

I've had a lot of experience with the Revic scope which has a similar problem solver and they work very well. As long as it's zero'd and has the correct info it pretty much always spits out great dope. It's too bad they are so heavy because it would be a really good solution in the field.

 

[eoperator]

Tested out my 8k again this morning. When I got up it was 5° 8k would not read anything, waited about 1.5hrs temp 8° and it works perfectly. Upper single digits must be about the limit for this unit/battery (whatever is limiting cold temp performance).

 

[roosiebull]

I would agree, and to be clear- I do not believe that I have said that about any of these companies- some of them are for sure, but the snake oils salesman to me are the “reviewers” that are given an items or items (or buy them) and they write a “review” that has no substance. I written before on the issues I’ve seen with Sig RF’s (and others), how was it magically me that found it with this one too?

Another aspect of this is who does the testing… I could compare the 2 and use them a whole year, and here in the PNW, that issue would never come up… others may (depending on how they compare in fog/rain) but even a good test effort may not expose all of the pros/cons

I could favor the sig depending on other strengths and weaknesses, being as objective as I can, in theory… my current RF is a sig, I haven’t had much trouble with it but plenty of random and short lived weirdness… I have thought it was dying a few times then comes back to life. It’s the most glitchy one I have used, and will go a different direction when it’s time

 

[OSU Fisher]

Another aspect of this is who does the testing… I could compare the 2 and use them a whole year, and here in the PNW, that issue would never come up… others may (depending on how they compare in fog/rain) but even a good test effort may not expose all of the pros/cons

I could favor the sig depending on other strengths and weaknesses, being as objective as I can, in theory… my current RF is a sig, I haven’t had much trouble with it but plenty of random and short lived weirdness… I have thought it was dying a few times then comes back to life. It’s the most glitchy one I have used, and will go a different direction when it’s time

Depends on where your at in the PNW. I live I Oregon and hunt all over in our state. Shoot, it’s been single digits at the house all last week.

 

[roosiebull]

Depends on where your at in the PNW. I live I Oregon and hunt all over in our state. Shoot, it’s been single digits at the house all last week.

True, coldest I have seen was low 20’s and I would need to be pretty deliberate to seek out colder weather in my normal hunting program. When I am in the colder parts of the state it’s usually not during the cold season… it’s usually years between me being in single digit temps. I could have good intentions and still give a review that leaves important things out…

It’s like me reading a rain gear review, they pretty much all suck… they may be as objective and honest as possible, but it will still likely fail inside 2 weeks with me.

There are a lot of shills that will kiss ass for free stuff and recognition in any form, and there are also those who try to review things but don’t or can’t account for all key points

There aren’t many reviewers that are good at reviewing things in a useful way… it’s a pleasant surprise when someone does

 

[OSU Fisher]

True, coldest I have seen was low 20’s and I would need to be pretty deliberate to seek out colder weather in my normal hunting program. When I am in the colder parts of the state it’s usually not during the cold season… it’s usually years between me being in single digit temps. I could have good intentions and still give a review that leaves important things out…

It’s like me reading a rain gear review, they pretty much all suck… they may be as objective and honest as possible, but it will still likely fail inside 2 weeks with me.

There are a lot of shills that will kiss ass for free stuff and recognition in any form, and there are also those who try to review things but don’t or can’t account for all key points

There aren’t many reviewers that are good at reviewing things in a useful way… it’s a pleasant surprise when someone does

Absolutely agree, born and raised in the Nw coast range. I know rain. Now live on the east side where sun, snow and cold are more of the norm.

I couldn’t agree more on reviews. I pretty much ignore 99% of them. Now days majority are sponsored and are completely biased or just flat lie to continue to get the free gear.

 

[buzzy]

I believe I understand the cold testing but if someone is leaving it outside it’s case sitting all night long what exactly does that prove? I don’t know anyone who hunts this way. It’s normally in its case in my pack so it has some protection from the direct cold.

I recently tested my 8k on a BC goat hunt. In the am it was probably 3-4 degrees. It worked just fine out to about 2k yards. Then I was having problems with it ranging trees. I was surprised as I was expecting it to pick up trees well past 3k yards. So I’m still testing how well it will pick up targets at real long range but I haven’t seen any cold weather issues with my little experience with it in the cold.

I saw someone ask if you can input wind directly into the sig and yes you can. Very easy to do this from the RF directly.

 

[Formidilosus]

Another aspect of this is who does the testing… I could compare the 2 and use them a whole year, and here in the PNW, that issue would never come up… others may (depending on how they compare in fog/rain) but even a good test effort may not expose all of the pros/cons

That’s true. But that also is why most “reviews” aren’t testing or anything close.

I could favor the sig depending on other strengths and weaknesses, being as objective as I can, in theory… my current RF is a sig, I haven’t had much trouble with it but plenty of random and short lived weirdness… I have thought it was dying a few times then comes back to life. It’s the most glitchy one I have used, and will go a different direction when it’s time

The Revic is crushing this Sig, or I should say this Sig is failing pretty badly. It stopped reading anything past 550’ish, and was struggling out to 500’ish ranges. Brand new battery and temp was 8° when started and warmed up to low 30’s. Started off fine out of the truck relatively speaking, but by two hours in the 20’s it failed. The Revic had no issues.

 

[Formidilosus]

I believe I understand the cold testing but if someone is leaving it outside it’s case sitting all night long what exactly does that prove? I don’t know anyone who hunts this way. It’s normally in its case in my pack so it has some protection from the direct cold.

Backpack hunting, your pack isn’t materially warmer than ambient. The case isn’t providing warmth anyways, and takes all of ten minutes for the case to reach ambient air temp.

I recently tested my 8k on a BC goat hunt. In the am it was probably 3-4 degrees. It worked just fine out to about 2k yards. Then I was having problems with it ranging trees. I was surprised as I was expecting it to pick up trees well past 3k yards. So I’m still testing how well it will pick up targets at real long range but I haven’t seen any cold weather issues with my little experience with it in the cold.

That’s the issue with the Sigs that I have seen- widely varying performance with identical units. This Sig started failing yesterday in 20° temps with a new battery and it started in a heated truck. After two hours of being outside it really struggled/wouldn’t range past 550’ish yards, and need two to three try’s to get a reading at 350’ish.

 

[buzzy]

Doesn’t seem like a very good comparison so far when you are leaving out one of the biggest features for the Sig and that is dropping a pin to basemap. That is a huge fail in my opinion for the Revic.

One could argue if it can’t range in cold temps it doesn’t matter. But leaving it out completely really isn’t a fair comparison. It also seems strange that until now nobody has noticed this with the sig. I’m not saying it’s not a real issue but I would have thought complaints would have popped up on forums by now.

 

[OSU Fisher]

Doesn’t seem like a very good comparison so far when you are leaving out one of the biggest features for the Sig and that is dropping a pin to basemap. That is a huge fail in my opinion for the Revic.

One could argue if it can’t range in cold temps it doesn’t matter. But leaving it out completely really isn’t a fair comparison. It also seems strange that until now nobody has noticed this with the sig. I’m not saying it’s not a real issue but I would have thought complaints would have popped up on forums by now.

This is such a Madonna/pretty boy feature. Sure I guess it’s nice but I have absolutely never needed this feature. I am a LR hunter I guess. Shot plenty of animals cross canyon, creeks etc. taken multiple hrs to get to them on and on. I’ve had no issues finding my spot without a range finder linking to BaseMap. Would I use it, maybe? But do I care more about a range finder that does it’s main job absolutely. And to clarify, I own 2 2400 abs’s that I use weekly. I’m not a gunwerks/revic fanboy. I just feel this feature is one that most don’t care about.

 

[Theringworm]

Doesn’t seem like a very good comparison so far when you are leaving out one of the biggest features for the Sig and that is dropping a pin to basemap. That is a huge fail in my opinion for the Revic.

One could argue if it can’t range in cold temps it doesn’t matter. But leaving it out completely really isn’t a fair comparison. It also seems strange that until now nobody has noticed this with the sig. I’m not saying it’s not a real issue but I would have thought complaints would have popped up on forums by now.

Not to attack you personally, but do you ever hunt out of a backpack and a tent? The majority of Western hunters do. All of my annual elk trips are that way. No portable heaters or fireplaces inside the tent. Inside temps are close to outside ambient temps. This is completely relative for many western hunters. And wearing that rangefinder on your chest rig will be whatever the ambient temp is.

The OnX pin drop feature is of little to no value. Anyone that carries a gps w/ satellite imagery or a smart phone and Gaia maps etc, can easily drop a pin. No difference whether you point the rangefinder to select the pin drop spot or pull up imagery on your gps or smart phone unit and select it visually. Having said that, I have never needed to do that. Not a feature I see a need for with my current setup. I would much rather it work in all temps as advertised than duplicate something I can already do on my gps or smartphone. That to me is irrelevant.

 

[buzzy]

Not to attack you personally, but do you ever hunt out of a backpack and a tent? The majority of Western hunters do. All of my annual elk trips are that way. No portable heaters or fireplaces inside the tent. Inside temps are close to outside ambient temps. This is completely relative for many western hunters. And wearing that rangefinder on your chest rig will be whatever the ambient temp is.

The OnX pin drop feature is of little to no value. Anyone that carries a gps w/ satellite imagery or a smart phone and Gaia maps etc, can easily drop a pin. No difference whether you point the rangefinder to select the pin drop spot or pull up imagery on your gps or smart phone unit and select it visually. Having said that, I have never needed to do that. Not a feature I see a need for with my current setup. I would much rather it work in all temps as advertised than duplicate something I can already do on my gps or smartphone. That to me is irrelevant.

Pretty petty way to start off your response but yea I do a fair amount of back country hunting. And I don’t know about you but I don’t leave my electronic gear sitting outside all night long out in the elements but to each his own. That’s my only point and maybe it makes no difference at all. I just don’t understand why test under those conditions but so be it.

And one feature to you may not be important but to others it’s something that is valuable. So if you are going to compare 2 units compare all the features. Don’t pick and chose what features you think are important.

I have run both the G7 and sig 2400 units and have had issues with both. I have yet to try the Revic and see no need to at this point since the Sig has met all my needs. I agree that if it’s having that many issues ranging in the cold it will be a major problem. Hence why I said it’s strange that nobody else until now has pointed this out.

 

[Formidilosus]

Doesn’t seem like a very good comparison so far when you are leaving out one of the biggest features for the Sig and that is dropping a pin to basemap. That is a huge fail in my opinion for the Revic.

Hard to drop a pin in Basemaps when it won’t get a range, isn’t it?

One could argue if it can’t range in cold temps it doesn’t matter. But leaving it out completely really isn’t a fair comparison. It also seems strange that until now nobody has noticed this with the sig. I’m not saying it’s not a real issue but I would have thought complaints would have popped up on forums by now.

This isn’t the review. This is a discussion of what is being found as they are used.
After being inside the heated cab of the truck today, the Sig got one range on pine trees at 942 yards in about fifty tries. The Revic did it first time, and every time out to 1,300 yards, which is as far as I can see here. The Sig was ok in the 400-500 yard range, but still struggled at 600’ish.

To be clear, if these were my RF’s or if I didn’t agree to do a review for a Ryan, I would stop right now as this Sig RF is a failure at the only thing that matters and it isn’t going to get “better” for it.

 

[Formidilosus]

Pretty petty way to start off your response but yea I do a fair amount of back country hunting. And I don’t know about you but I don’t leave my electronic gear sitting outside all night long out in the elements but to each his own.

You backpack hunt during winter and in the cold. Ok, where does your rangefinder stay while you sleep? And what do you do with it while you hunt during the day?

And one feature to you may not be important but to others it’s something that is valuable. So if you are going to compare 2 units compare all the features. Don’t pick and chose what features you think are important.

A rangefinder ranging isn’t a “feature”, it’s the sole reason it exists. The person that was depending on the Sig yesterday when it failed didn’t give a tinkers thimble about “features” when it wouldn’t range a target at sub 500 yards.

I have run both the G7 and sig 2400 units and have had issues with both. I have yet to try the Revic and see no need to at this point since the Sig has met all my needs. I agree that if it’s having that many issues ranging in the cold it will be a major problem. Hence why I said it’s strange that nobody else until now has pointed this out.

I have written about cold weather issues with both of those rangefinders, and consistency issues with the Sig, and multiple people have relayed similar issues with both. The information about cold weather issues with RF’s is out there and isn’t a secret.

 

[buzzy]

Awesome. Keep up the amazing work.