Shelter- How heavy is too heavy?

[BigDuckHunter]

I’m making some changes to my base load out, the biggest change I want to make is my shelter. I used a SO Guardian last year. It was my first experience with floorless/trekking pole pitch. I was not a fan. Definitely making a change there.

I’ve read a ton of threads on here so I’ve looked at about all the likely options for a one-man. Right now I’m leaning towards a Tarptent Scarp Ultra. (Also strongly considered the X-Dome but don’t like the issues it’s been having with breaking poles. Also looked at the Moment DW, but not a fan of Silnylon and don’t want to shell out for the Dyneema.)

I like that it doesn’t need trekking poles to pitch, has a floor, and seems sturdy enough to handle strong winds (I had an issue there last fall). 46 ounces seems pretty heavy to me, but a lot of people talk about Hillebergs and Stone Glacier tents which weigh more. I could use it without the insert at times which would cut things down to 32 ounces. It also seems like it’s big enough to be comfortable (I’m a pretty big guy) and keep some gear dry. To all you lightweight guys, what’s “too heavy” for you?

 

[GunsAreFun]

It depends on your priorities, physical abilities, and how far you’re hiking. If that is your only weight splurge, it can be fine. If you’re only walking a couple miles, it really doesn’t matter much. 2-2.5 pounds is about as light as it gets with freestanding tents.

 

[BigDuckHunter]

It depends on your priorities, physical abilities, and how far you’re hiking. If that is your only weight splurge, it can be fine. If you’re only walking a couple miles, it really doesn’t matter much. 2-2.5 pounds is about as light as it gets with freestanding tents.

Sometimes only a couple miles, sometimes much further. Funny thing is, the closer to the truck I am, the more comfortable I feel having something lightweight and less sturdy. When I get a couple days walk from civilization I want to make sure I can handle anything that pops up.

 

[GunsAreFun]

When I get a couple days walk from civilization I want to make sure I can handle anything that pops up.

The crux of that though is that the lighter weight you go, the less durable the tents become, especially the free standing tents as that usually means thinner poles.

 

[BigDuckHunter]

The crux of that though is that the lighter weight you go, the less durable the tents become, especially the free standing tents as that usually means thinner poles.

Yep. That’s exactly what has me considering carrying an almost 3 pound tent. One of my buddies has a copper spur that sits right at 2 pounds, but I feel like I could almost blow that thing over with a big breath. The videos I’ve watched make the scarp look pretty dang tough. Definitely seems to be in the same ballpark as a hilleberg. I’m just not sure if that’s necessary if I’m not going to Alaska with it.

 

[GunsAreFun]

What did you boot like about the floorless tent?

 

[justinspicher]

I’m a fan of hammocks. Mine is a set with straps, hammock and a tarp. It might weigh a pound and a half? Two at the most.

 

[5MilesBack]

One of my buddies has a copper spur that sits right at 2 pounds, but I feel like I could almost blow that thing over with a big breath.

Shoot, my CS UL's weigh in at 5+ pounds. I use my UL4 a lot. I like space, more than super lightweight. I've had it above timberline in some pretty hellacious winds and a few inches of snow, and it did fine.

 

[Grady.J]

I've got the scarp1 in silnylon, and IMO it's a real sweetspot for weight vs space and sturdiness. Mine comes in right at 48oz with stakes and guylines. Im 6'2 and its plenty spacious. I imagine the Ultra version would be another step up in sturdiness for a little less weight. Add the crossing poles for another pound(which I've yet to use or felt like I needed them), and you've gotta be on par with a hilleberg soulo for less weight and more space. Without the crossing poles you can still stake the hell out of it.


I'm going to go with a an Argali Rincon and a bivy for early season this year to save some weight, but if I was you and knew I didn't want a floorless setup, I think the Scarp1 is a top choice.

 

[Beendare]

I have been around and around on this also; tipis, floorless trek pole models, freestanding- just about everything- plus I'm tall so what you realize is the low sloping walls of some Tipis and tents really don't have as much effective room as they claim. I'm over 6' tall and find that many of those don't work for me.

You can find many good options for a solo setup from right around 2.5# and under.

I'm really liking the Tarptent Double rainbow-2.5#. Full floor and bug mesh, 3 season sturdy...but it's not going to hold much of a snow load. No worries, I hunt early season. Best of all, it's long with steep sides, so no wet bag.

And no my camp is not usually that messy-grin...... I just unloaded my pack......

FWIW, the Tarptent stuff is top quality....

 

[BigDuckHunter]

What did you boot like about the floorless tent?

There were several things. I didn’t love the size of a spot I needed to set it up. That really limited me in a couple spots. And it really wasn’t that spacious inside for how big it was.

I also didn’t love that I couldn’t use my trekking poles while it was setup (yeah I could get dedicated poles, but that’s added money/weight).

I didn’t love the condensation on the inside and having to be careful not to touch it so I didn’t get wet. I ended up with a soaked back a few mornings. I know there are liners and floor systems that help but it’s more money/weight.

Last, I didn’t love how one stake failing would lead to the whole tent collapsing. One of the trips I used it on was in a super rocky area. I struggled finding a place I could sink 6 stakes into solid soil where I needed them for the tent. It ended up getting blown over in the middle of the night one time when a storm blew up (my fault for not having it solid when I went to bed but I had moved it around half a dozen times prior trying to find solid soil and just wanted to go to bed).

 

[BigDuckHunter]

I’m a fan of hammocks. Mine is a set with straps, hammock and a tarp. It might weigh a pound and a half? Two at the most.

I can’t sleep on my back otherwise I’d definitely look into a hammock.

 

[BigDuckHunter]

I've got the scarp1 in silnylon, and IMO it's a real sweetspot for weight vs space and sturdiness. Mine comes in right at 48oz with stakes and guylines. Im 6'2 and its plenty spacious. I imagine the Ultra version would be another step up in sturdiness for a little less weight. Add the crossing poles for another pound(which I've yet to use or felt like I needed them), and you've gotta be on par with a hilleberg soulo for less weight and more space. Without the crossing poles you can still stake the hell out of it.


I'm going to go with a an Argali Rincon and a bivy for early season this year to save some weight, but if I was you and knew I didn't want a floorless setup, I think the Scarp1 is a top choice.

How does your scarp do with condensation? My only concern with them besides the weight is they don’t look like they’ve got much ventilation unless you open the zippers on the fly up top which is probably a no-go in heavy rain.

 

[Blurry1]

I can’t sleep on my back otherwise I’d definitely look into a hammock.

You can side sleep in a hammock no problem. Just need to buy a quality one. Hell I’ve even belly slept in mine here and there. Example https://dream-hammock.com/

 

[GunsAreFun]

There were several things. I didn’t love the size of a spot I needed to set it up. That really limited me in a couple spots. And it really wasn’t that spacious inside for how big it was.

I also didn’t love that I couldn’t use my trekking poles while it was setup (yeah I could get dedicated poles, but that’s added money/weight).

I didn’t love the condensation on the inside and having to be careful not to touch it so I didn’t get wet. I ended up with a soaked back a few mornings. I know there are liners and floor systems that help but it’s more money/weight.

Last, I didn’t love how one stake failing would lead to the whole tent collapsing. One of the trips I used it on was in a super rocky area. I struggled finding a place I could sink 6 stakes into solid soil where I needed them for the tent. It ended up getting blown over in the middle of the night one time when a storm blew up (my fault for not having it solid when I went to bed but I had moved it around half a dozen times prior trying to find solid soil and just wanted to go to bed).

Some of those things are easily overcome such as cutting a branch instead of using poles or pitching between trees, which is what I do more often than not.

The size of the spot is perhaps just the choice of tent. Free standing tents have less flexibility than floorless do. I can and have set my Warbonnet Ground Tarp up on ground that wasn’t all level but there was a spot big enough for me to lay down that was level.

Condensation is an issue on all backpacking shelters. The space is just too small. The only thing a free standing tent does it maybe have a screened in area that keeps you from touching the side.

For rocky areas, you will have similar issues with free standing tents, but it could be worse because that guyline coming loose could snap one of the poles. In those cases, it’s best to use large rocks. Tie a line around a good sized rock and then get a bigger rock and put it in on top of the line.

Not trying to argue lol. Just pointing out that the grass isn’t always greener when it comes to lightweight backpacking gear.

A hammock may solve some of your concerns.

 

[IAm_Not_Lost]

Hard to beat a ZPacks Duplex if you’re willing to shell out, which it seems you are.

With that said, even with my old Big Agnes Seedhouse 2 that weighs 3lbs and change, my fully packed weight is only about 26lbs for a typical backpacking trip.

I’m a big fan of an oversized bivy personally. My Oware two person is pretty great.

 

[htlt_surfboards]

Hard to beat a ZPacks Duplex if you’re willing to shell out, which it seems you are.

With that said, even with my old Big Agnes Seedhouse 2 that weighs 3lbs and change, my fully packed weight is only about 26lbs for a typical backpacking trip.

I’m a big fan of an oversized bivy personally. My Oware two person is pretty great.

Dude I've tried a bunch of different bivy sacks and can't believe I've never come across a two person before.

 

[Grady.J]

How does your scarp do with condensation? My only concern with them besides the weight is they don’t look like they’ve got much ventilation unless you open the zippers on the fly up top which is probably a no-go in heavy rain.

It's not immune to it but I'd say it actually has better vent options than anything in it's class. You can leave the arch vents a little bit open unless it's raining upside down and sideways. You can open the end zipper vents, and slide the arch sleeves up, and unless you're set up in a puddle you're pretty safe from splashing up and under. Of course if it is blowing sideways you can batten all that stuff down if needed.

 

[Beendare]

The problems with hammocks is they are not multi purpose in the backcountry. They suck in bad weather as a place to cook and in reply strong wind those raised tarps are a sail.

 

[IAm_Not_Lost]

Dude I've tried a bunch of different bivy sacks and can't believe I've never come across a two person before.

Totally the way to go. Not sure if Oware is still super active, but their two person silnylon bivy is awesome. It’s basically like a full size bed size if memory serves, maybe a little smaller.