Scott Johnson & Steve House on non-gym training & heart zone training:

[nnmarcher]

I just finished Training for the Uphill Athlete and wanted to bump this thread and see if anyone has had any further experiences they'd like to share? I really enjoyed how thorough the book was. Starting with the metabolic process definitions and how to optimize them, importance of recovery and the intensity zones, strength training, different tests you can perform at home, etc. Just a good book that captures a lot of good information in one place and makes it easy to read.

I currently run year round and would like to sign up for a couple trail races next spring/summer. I know I would benefit from a lot more Z1 and Z2 work, so that is my first priority. I don't have any strength training in my current routine so I will do the recommended assessments and figure out where to start.

 

[eamyrick]

Very interested and hope to hear a few more people chime in. When I marathon trained I was at my weakest point physically. Could run 7:20 miles for 20 but could barely pass my work PT test which has bench and pull up. Also didn’t note any major weight loss as I was always hungry. Didn’t perform very well on obstacle course.

 

[mtwarden]

My own experience (and Steve House and his co-authors don't dispute it) is that to fully prepared for a mountain endeavor is best achieved with a blend of strength training and shorter high output exercise with a large dose of longer, lower intensity aerobic training.

Trail running is fine, but personally I think hiking is as good or better as it more closely mimics what you're going to be doing in the Fall. Add a pack by all means. If you can get this longer, lower intensity training in the mountains, better yet.

I do see folks that have blinders on in regards to longer aerobic stuff, but also see folks that think they can ignore strength training and higher intensity training- both are flawed.

This is from three years ago, I haven't changed my mind a bit- conversely, I'm more convinced now than I was three years ago.

Get that Zone 2 training in- as much as feasible, sprinkle in some Zone 3/4 training. For me it's pretty easy, as just about every hike I go on has some climbing that jumps me up a zone (or two) for part of it. Strength train a couple of times a week- concentrating on large, compound lifts.

Try to squeeze in some longer stuff- backpacking outside of hunting season is the perfect choice.

Consistency- to be most effective, your training needs to be consistent. This isn't always easy (but gets easier with retirement! ), but hunting in the mountains isn't either. Consistency in addition to the fitness benefits, builds mental toughness as well.

 

[WanderingFarmer]

In my experience the strength requirements for mountain hunting are far greater than what running with supporting strength training will provide. Athletically, I came to mountain hunting from trail running background with a few shorter ultras under my belt.


In 2021, I was doing supporting strength training, and had just come off a solid race build up. I was able to move around the mountains chasing elk without getting winded, but I walked away with the unmistakable conclusion that I was NOT strong enough. I wasn’t strong enough to move safely and efficiently through steep and rugged country. If my partners had killed an elk, the pack out would have severely exposed my limitations

In 2022, I shifted my training toward strength and stopped running due to an injury. During that hunting season I was adequately strong and would have had zero concerns about packing out an elk. I would have been comfortable with 100#+ loads on a pack out. I was aerobically limited, but my partner was pretty slow, so it didn’t actually limit my hunt, even though I was frequently out of breath.


In 2023 I continued the strength training but added much more rucking and loaded hikes for aerobic development. I was plenty strong and while I was better aerobically than 2022, I didn’t have the top-end gear I would have liked for a fast ascent. Still didn’t kill an elk - my buddy hurt his knee on the second day, so I got to simulate a pack out by carrying his food and gear back to the truck and had no issues with my fitness. The Mike Prevost programs mentioned above were great for me this year.


For 2024, I’m starting to emphasize the aerobic efforts NOW, since I just finished an 8-week block of focused strength training. I’ll be using the Mike Prevost programs again, but with a longer buildup for the aerobic development. In short, I think there’s a baseline level of strength required to move with weight in the mountains. Once I’ve met that, aerobic fitness is the differentiator for me in terms of how far I can go, how fast I can get there, and how well I recover to do it again tomorrow.

 

[P Carter]

I think thes two guys have it right; nothing to add really, other than my experience is quite similar! Adding strength training is a huge benefit to a hunter, and to life. Training blocks that strategically scale up and strength/back on aerobic and vice-versa throughout the year are helpful, and a good way to avoid plateaus/burnout, keep things interesting, and avoid backsliding too much in any particular area. It's simple but not easy!

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

I clicked on this thread just because I thought it said Scarlett Johansson

 

[Poser]

In my experience the strength requirements for mountain hunting are far greater than what running with supporting strength training will provide. Athletically, I came to mountain hunting from trail running background with a few shorter ultras under my belt.


In 2021, I was doing supporting strength training, and had just come off a solid race build up. I was able to move around the mountains chasing elk without getting winded, but I walked away with the unmistakable conclusion that I was NOT strong enough. I wasn’t strong enough to move safely and efficiently through steep and rugged country. If my partners had killed an elk, the pack out would have severely exposed my limitations

In 2022, I shifted my training toward strength and stopped running due to an injury. During that hunting season I was adequately strong and would have had zero concerns about packing out an elk. I would have been comfortable with 100#+ loads on a pack out. I was aerobically limited, but my partner was pretty slow, so it didn’t actually limit my hunt, even though I was frequently out of breath.


In 2023 I continued the strength training but added much more rucking and loaded hikes for aerobic development. I was plenty strong and while I was better aerobically than 2022, I didn’t have the top-end gear I would have liked for a fast ascent. Still didn’t kill an elk - my buddy hurt his knee on the second day, so I got to simulate a pack out by carrying his food and gear back to the truck and had no issues with my fitness. The Mike Prevost programs mentioned above were great for me this year.


For 2024, I’m starting to emphasize the aerobic efforts NOW, since I just finished an 8-week block of focused strength training. I’ll be using the Mike Prevost programs again, but with a longer buildup for the aerobic development. In short, I think there’s a baseline level of strength required to move with weight in the mountains. Once I’ve met that, aerobic fitness is the differentiator for me in terms of how far I can go, how fast I can get there, and how well I recover to do it again tomorrow.

I think it does take a few seasons of experience to find the right balance of appropriate strength and appropriate conditioning volume. I do agree that hunting requires more strength than other mountain sports, but agreeing with almost anyone on the appropriate amount seems to be a matter of contention and highly individual. You do need to be stronger than some would initially believe since there is a benefit “threshold” you need to maintain and you will lose some amount of strength once your conditioning volume increases. I have found some strength maintenance metrics that work well for me, but I must get stronger than those metrics at least 2x a year to maintain them when I am at my weakest.

 

[1jeds]

I just finished Training for the Uphill Athlete and wanted to bump this thread and see if anyone has had any further experiences they'd like to share? I really enjoyed how thorough the book was. Starting with the metabolic process definitions and how to optimize them, importance of recovery and the intensity zones, strength training, different tests you can perform at home, etc. Just a good book that captures a lot of good information in one place and makes it easy to read.

I currently run year round and would like to sign up for a couple trail races next spring/summer. I know I would benefit from a lot more Z1 and Z2 work, so that is my first priority. I don't have any strength training in my current routine so I will do the recommended assessments and figure out where to start.

I've read the book and run a lot. I have a lactate meter and test periodically. My thresholds are dialed in but more importantly it's good to know how that translates to perceived effort. The field tests laid out are a great option and will get you very close. Aerobic work will go a very long way for everyone, and also helps with metabolic health.

Supplementing with strength is a must for me, not just to support running but for life in general (including hunting). I'll do something like a MTN Tough program, or Wendler 5/3/1, etc. in addition to running.

I'm definitely not breaking any strength records, but strong enough to do what I want and not get injured. If you're just doing Z1/Z2 work you can recover quickly and definitely do strength at the same time, they aren't mutually exclusive.