Scope Leveling; Instruction that ran counter to everything I thought I knew

[JohnJohnson]

Form...I get it. You are the best and everyone here says so, so I can't dispute anything you might opine on. Besides, I don't dispute most of what you opine on either.

I don't think it's a personal thing. Your perception of the military and its snipers just seems like it's been shaped by Hollywood rather than reality. For purely long range shooting skill, not anything else that snipers do, I'd take a top 30% PRS/NRL Hunter competitor over 99% of US military snipers. I'm sure there are a couple of exceptions to that rule, such as military snipers who compete at a high level in PRS/NRL Hunter. But generally when snipers show up to competitions, they do badly for awhile until they improve their skillsets by competing and training for competitions. Phillip Velayo has talked a lot about it (he's a former scout sniper and scout sniper instructor).

 

[Hnthrdr]

Who is best trained at long range accuracy know-how and tactics than Ranger snipers? Likely, nobody. Makes perfect sense, if you take the time to think about it and forget about your opinion. Enough said.

I led a sniper section in the army. Snipers are good shots and more intelligent than your average Joe. They have to pass sniper school. This does not make them gospel on shooting though. Also all soldiers who go through sniper school earn the sniper identifier. So being an army ranger who is sniper qualified is different than being a ranger who is a sniper on a recce team. Honestly I think SF or CAG is going to have the best snipers out there. And yes they often do training at private shooting schools. My unit never had funds for that, but buddies who are SF snipers are going to do 1-2 week long schools that are in Tx, NM, Utah that have no formal association with the mil

 

[SwiftShot]

Molon...not every sniper has the same expertise, and you do not know the instructors background to say that he is just the average Ranger sniper or one of the best, or if he has additional training outside the military. The fact that they need to use a specific cartridge doesn't mean anything since they are dialing anyways.....a 223, 308 or 50BMG or your favorite round makes zero difference. How much you shoot doesn't make a difference either so long as you get enough to be consistent and proficient. You shooting 1000 rounds a week does not make you better necessarily than a Ranger shooting 200. Seems the Rangers have no problem popping a terrorist at a mile+.

Long Range shooting and sniper are not all the same. Army sniper school is 5 weeks and yes it teaches long range it teaches a lot about being undetected, movement to and from target ect. It does mean they are way better than average shooter, but that is just the beginning.
I once was sent to assist a unit. All had the scroll, we boarded a plane and jumped. The where all reservist cooks. It was an airborne chow hall.
I say this because the schools are the basics, it doesn't make them a door kicker.

 

[JohnJohnson]

My unit never had funds for that, but buddies who are SF snipers are going to do 1-2 week long schools that are in Tx, NM, Utah that have no formal association with the mil

Sounds like Rifles Only. They do a LOT of teaching military guys and have for decades.

 

[Formidilosus]

Form...I get it. You are the best and everyone here says so, so I can't dispute anything you might opine on. Besides, I don't dispute most of what you opine on either.

When you can’t answer simple and straightforward questions, fall back on fallacies.

The answer is that you have no reason other than what you’ve been told, to believe anything about military snipers or military units.

 

[WaWox]

One of my neighbors had been to sniper school and it sounded like he spent about 5h lying in tall grass for every bullet he got to shoot, .. at least in his telling, over 5 weeks he probably shot no more than five 20 round boxes of ammo.

Which makes sense. The sniper skill set is about getting somewhere undetected and then taking a long shot. The former is way more time intensive to teach and learn.

 

[Molon Labe]

Molon...not every sniper has the same expertise, and you do not know the instructors background to say that he is just the average Ranger sniper or one of the best, or if he has additional training outside the military. The fact that they need to use a specific cartridge doesn't mean anything since they are dialing anyways.....a 223, 308 or 50BMG or your favorite round makes zero difference. How much you shoot doesn't make a difference either so long as you get enough to be consistent and proficient. You shooting 1000 rounds a week does not make you better necessarily than a Ranger shooting 200. Seems the Rangers have no problem popping a terrorist at a mile+.

Oh my god. I don’t know where to start. So much wrong.

Just google “rifle cant and effect on POI” or something. I guarantee 100%. That it matters and you should not be shooting a rifle at distance with a cant to the rifle. IF you want your POI to be on target.

I have seen tens if not hundreds of thousands of rounds shot out of precision rifles from positional shooting. I have witnessed many a mid pack shooter have issues with a non level rifle causing POI shifting. Checking my level is the very first thing I do in my shot sequence after I close the bolt. The top .1% of the shooters in this country only break rounds on level rifles…there is a reason for it.

The instructor the OP had was incorrect. It happens. But you can’t deny or explain away errors by saying someone is an “expert” because they took some sniper school classes. Hahaha.

 

[WaWox]

Oh my god. I don’t know where to start. So much wrong.

Just google “rifle cant and effect on POI” or something. I guarantee 100%. That it matters and you should not be shooting a rifle at distance with a cant to the rifle. IF you want your POI to be on target.

I have seen tens if not hundreds of thousands of rounds shot out of precision rifles from positional shooting. I have witnessed many a mid pack shooter have issues with a non level rifle causing POI shifting. Checking my level is the very first thing I do in my shot sequence after I close the bolt. The top .1% of the shooters in this country only break rounds on level rifles…there is a reason for it.

The instructor the OP had was incorrect. It happens. But you can’t deny or explain away errors by saying someone is an “expert” because they took some sniper school classes. Hahaha.

I am still not sure I understand why.

Let's say scope is level. Does canted rifle matter ?

Can you explain why? I really don't understand why rotating the barrel would have an impact on POI (after zeroing etc )