Sawtooth vs Redcliffe

[brocksw]

Does anyone have both or seen both set up? They seem pretty similar but I'm kind of looking for some caveats of each before I buy one. From what I can tell there is more headroom and a bigger footprint in the Redcliffe. From the photos I've seen they even look like they have a similar shape...sawtooth looks like it might have a sharper angle on the sidewalls to allow for more usable space?

 

[reaper]

The down side of the sawtooth is the second pole from the back and i think youll be more crawling like a tarp(to the back)and it really looks 2 man shelter only with stove and gear but the shape will be an advantage sometimes to pitch.Redcliff looks better IMO,have two doors wich is really nice for venting,its more 3-4 guys with gear and stove.Sidewalls on the redcliff using the external guy out to accomplish a similar function as the Sawtooth.I know its more for hunting here but Are you doing family camping sometimes...wife,kiddos,dogs ect...?...if yes,go with the redcliff.If youll be one or 2 only everytime=Sawtooth.Both shelters have option for liners. and mosquitos net.The removable mosquitos door on the sawtooth is a great idea,wish to have this on my SO 4 man.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Seek Outside calls the Redcliffe a pyramid which would likely make it a 4-sided (equal?) shelter with 90 degree corners. It might be a rectangle however. The Sawtooth is more of a tapered 'coffin' shape with a peak on the door end. For my ways the Sawtooth is a 1 or 2 man unit unless we're adding kids or planning to get very personal while leaving some gear outside. I have the Sawtooth and it's a very tough shelter. Easy to pitch. Side guy-outs are a superior feature. The short back pole is a non-issue for me until I need to get back in there for something and then it can be an obstacle. I live with it. I just did 15 straight days in a Sawtooth and really love that shelter.

 

[camping1601]

I have a thread with pics and specs on the Redcliffe some pages back. I have some pics from my hunt I'm gonna put on when I get a chance.

 

[JPD350]

I have no experience with the Radcliffe but I just used the Sawtooth for 15 days on an Alaskan float hunt and was impressed at how easy it was to set up in different areas (8 different sites) I am sure that if the footprint was any bigger there would have been issues on finding a location to set it up. The shape of the Sawtooth allowed me to set it up between bushes, rocks or trees, had the footprint been square or rectangle I would have spent a lot of extra time looking for a big enough location. Overall the Sawtooth was big enough for two people and an assortment of gear, I was satisfied and had no issues.

 

[Stid2677]

Love my Sawtooth,, been using it since they came out. I own over 10 other shelters, but I always seem to take the Sawtooth and on the chilly days the stove too. The Sawtooth really sheds high wind and is so easy to pitch, I can lay my gear out if it is raining and pull the Sawtooth over and pitch it in a few quick minutes.

 

[dotman]

I recently had my cimmaron next to colonel01's sawtooth on a recent hunt and the interior size is quiet a bit larger vs the cimmaron (I know not the Redclif). Something that really surprised me was how much the material used in the sawtooth stretched, that thing would be 5" off the ground to on the ground from night to day. The cimmaron would go slack to tight as well but not nearly at the same amount as the sawtooth.

Not related to either shelter but I did find that if using line locks you have to use normal sized paracord, I used a thinner but just as strong cordage that has become all the rage in the last few years and continually had my cordage slip in the line locks through out the day.

Both companies I think produce great gear so you would probably be happy with either. I will say, the Sawtooth canopy is pretty light weight and would assume the Redclif would be as well but the poles used with the sawtooth are boat anchors but also very strong.

 

[Shrek]

I love my Sawtooth ! It's a palace for one and perfect for two. If the back pole is an issue have a loop put on top of the rear pole place and guy it out using a trekking pole or stick. I just had this done to mine but haven't had the opportunity to put it to use. I know Luke and Becca have done this to theirs and it has worked well. I have no idea what the Redcliff is like but the Sawtooth is well proven. The Sawtooth poles are really heavy duty. Carbon is definitely lighter but it is also known to fail catastrophically. Kifaru did extensive testing and stuck with the heavier aluminum poles for bombproof performance over lighter weight. If you want a carbon pole then add one later but I'd rather have bombproof.

 

[colonel00]

As dotman mentions, I used a Sawtooth for the first time for a recent hunt and really liked it. It's definitely a different setup from my Cimarron. With the Sawtooth, you have an entrance and a place for gear and a stove and then room at the "back" for 2-3 people (if you do the mod to delete the rear pole). Even though you still have to hug the pole to stand, there is more headroom than a Cimarron, even with stake extensions.

Tim and I talked about it quite a bit and I still love the Cimarron for a lighter weight option that can be pitched with trekking poles or a tree limb much easier.

Although I haven't seen a Redcliff in person, its size advantages seem to be countered by its weight and cost. Here's how I kind of have it in my mind.

Solo shelter:
When weight matters, the Cimarron is a slam dunk as it has plenty of space for one person and is a super light option. When weight doesn't matter as much, the Sawtooth will probably get the nod and obviously the Redcliff would be a mansion for one person.

Two people:
When weight matters, the Cimarron will still probably get the call as it's still plenty of room for two and a stove. The two doors make it easy for each person to have their own entry without having to crawl over the other person. However, if you are running a nest, it may be tough to get two 1-person nests in the Cimarron and doubling up in a 2-person nest with another dude might be a little close for comfort.

For a moderate weight increase, the Sawtooth would be great for two people. Even though you only have one entrance, you can get in and out without really having to crawl over the other person. You might be able to get two 1-person nests in the Sawtooth, I just haven't tried. However, if someone ever comes out with a nice 2-3 person nest for the Sawtooth (or I get around to making one) it will be a solid shelter for two people.

The Redcliff has much more floor space as far as I can tell and should easily accommodate two nests if needed. But, it almost seems like overkill for two people unless you anticipate being stuck in the tent for long periods of time waiting out the weather.

Three people:
While the Cimarron can definitely accommodate three people, tight with a stove, I only think it would be a last option if planning a trip for three guys.

The Sawtooth would be the slam dunk for three as long as I did the rear pole mod. Even with the rear pole, I think you can fit three if necessary. Again, with a custom nest, the Sawtooth would be great for 3 in any situation.

The Redcliff would definitely be a great option for 3 people. If needing nests, I'm not sure how that would work exactly but I'm sure it's doable.

4 people:
While the Redcliff would obviously shine here, I'm still on the fence of saying that I'd rather just have two Cimarrons or a Cimarron and a Sawtooth. It just allows for more options of where and how to pitch camp. It allows one or two people to maybe do a spike camp somewhere else and the remaining people could still fit in the remaining shelter.

Caveats: I'm no expert and plenty of folks have spent much more time in the field than I have. This is just my observation after a recent trip. I'll also mention that I talk about nests when people could easily use bivys. I'm just not a bivy person as I just can't get used to being confined. I'd rather carry a few extra ounces and have a nest that had space to move around.

As with anything, what works for me may not work for others. Part of the fun is finding what works for you.

 

[colonel00]

Here are some photos showing what Tim was talking about. We had some pretty big temp swings. Cold nights below freezing with a good frost and then warm days probably in the 60's pushing 70 with lots of sun. At night the Sawtooth would sag quite a bit but I was hesitant to tighten it up as it would be quite taut once it warmed back up. I just didn't want to stress it too much.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Wow that stretch is crazy.

 

[Shrek]

I've never had stretch like that with mine but I bought my first one used. I'm thinking it was due to being new. I'd have taken the slack out. I'd not worry about the tension being too much as the tent fabric is tough.

 

[colonel00]

It wasn't new, only new to me. New or not, I wouldn't expect a "break in period". Yeah, I could have tightened it up, I did a little bit on later nights. Since I knew it would warm up, I didn't worry too much about it. I was just surprised at how much it stretched though. Anyway, not really the topic of this thread but perhaps a discussion for another.

 

[tyeager2964]

Definitely a topic for another thread as kifarus claim.is that their heavier fabric doesn't stretch like other silnylons

 

[Brendan]

It wasn't new, only new to me. New or not, I wouldn't expect a "break in period". Yeah, I could have tightened it up, I did a little bit on later nights. Since I knew it would warm up, I didn't worry too much about it. I was just surprised at how much it stretched though. Anyway, not really the topic of this thread but perhaps a discussion for another.

Now that you mention it, pretty sure my sawtooth loosened up after pitching as well. Not that significant and I wasn't paying as close attention to it, but I found myself snugging stuff down after a day or two...

 

[Stid2677]

I would say that all that frozen water pushing down had much to do with the sag. Mine has some temp stretch, but very little.


Just because photo

 

[colonel00]

Yeah, I'm sure the frost added a little weight. However, even on nights without frost, it still sagged quite a bit. Granted, we're talking 40+ degree temp swings plus the baking sun all day long. If the temps were more constant, I don't think it would have been as noticeable.

Oh, and "Just because" photos are the best

 

[Kevin Dill]

The stretch is interesting to me. Both my 8-Man and Sawtooth will 'move' (stretch or contract) according to temperature and moisture. I have never seen it be extreme in any sense...just a slight slacking in some conditions. I'm accustomed to making the initial pitch very taut and then re-tensioning things over the next few days. I don't think a guy can over-tension things unless he just gets crazy and pulls things tight enough to snap. That much fabric has a lot of natural give and take to it. I've spent some wild nights in my Sawtooth and would much rather have it too tight than too loose. Wind-flap is very hard on fabric and seams. Keep those side guy-outs cranked pretty tight and check the center pole every couple days. I typically do my adjustments when there is max slack (which again isn't much in my experience) and always have a decent pitch.

All good companies and shelters....just a matter of what a guy needs or prefers.

 

[justin davis]

The sawtooth is a great shelter! Awesome setup for 2

 

[camping1601]

Anyone have a real world, all included weight on their Sawtooth?