S&B Klassik 3-12....reliable and good stuff?

[Macintosh]

for whatever reason I was thinking you had a tikka. I see on definance's website they offer a "Optional Mil Spec 1913 (Picatinny) scope mount. Available in 20 MOA or custom made from 7075 aluminum ($90)". I assume "custom made" means you can specify the built-in elevation?

 

[JCMCUBIC]

I'd not seen the option for custom made. I'll check with them. Thanks for the pointer!

 

[JCMCUBIC]

Just to see, I pulled the 25 moa rings and replaced them with a 20 moa rail and low rings. I was able to get a hasty 200 yard zero with .5 mil left below it. I think the rings/rail were a touch lower than the hybrids so that probably gave me a little more help.

Hopefully I will have time to check/verify drops tomorrow.

 

[JCMCUBIC]

So today I put paper up to find tune the 0 from the hasty measure of the splash on steel yesterday. Didn't need much adjustment and I reset the 0 on the dial. Now time to shoot a few groups since I have paper up. Things got interesting here...

It's a generic, and the only, load I've tried in the rifle. 1 grain less than max on the most conservative load data I saw on a quick search when I put it together last year. I did take time to find the lands and back off a touch. As an off the cuff load I hunted with it a bit last year because it was never over an inch when I originally tried it, sighted in, and at multiple zero checks through the season. I figured at some point I'd check velocity and actually work up a load but was happy with ~1 MOA especially as consistent as it had been.

So I shoot the first group (3 shot) and it's right at 1.5". I put clear tape on it and I'm kinda irked so I shoot another and it's about 1.75". I'm shooting with no cooling between shots and it's a #1 so I go back and take a minute between shots....1.25" group. No I'm kinda ticked. It's very consistent 9 shot group and the center is eat up with basically nothing left and clear tape holding it together but the groups aren't near as tight as previously.

At this point I'm fed up and decide to see how high it is at 100.....and I laugh at myself. It took me that long to realize I'm shooting at 200. Glad I wasn't doing anything important today.

 

[TxLite]

Can someone shed some light on Eurooptic specifications showing 10.8 mils of travel?

 

[amassi]

Can someone shed some light on Eurooptic specifications showing 10.8 mils of travel?

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That’s total elevation
The turret is rev limited by design


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[TxLite]

That’s total elevation
The turret is rev limited by design


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok, so you shouldn’t run into an issue where you’re eating into your available 4.8 mils of travel once zero is set. That was a concern I had with it

Good to know

 

[atmat]

Ok, so you shouldn’t run into an issue where you’re eating into your available 4.8 mils of travel once zero is set. That was a concern I had with it

Good to know

I just got mine today. Glass is awesome. I like the turret feel. Zoom ring is a little stiff, but that may break in over time. The focus wheel is on the eye piece itself, so know that flip up caps won’t work for it. Are you thinking of buying? If you PM me, I can talk to you about pricing I paid.

 

[TxLite]

I just got mine today. Glass is awesome. I like the turret feel. Zoom ring is a little stiff, but that may break in over time. The focus wheel is on the eye piece itself, so know that flip up caps won’t work for it. Are you thinking of buying? If you PM me, I can talk to you about pricing I paid.

I’m considering getting something in that zoom range and have been looking at the nxs and Credo. 4.8 usable mils is a non issue for me and gets me out further than I plan to shoot with this rifle. Main concern at this point is zero retention and reliability for dialing.

 

[atmat]

I’m considering getting something in that zoom range and have been looking at the nxs and Credo. 4.8 usable mils is a non issue for me and gets me out further than I plan to shoot with this rifle. Main concern at this point is zero retention and reliability for dialing.

I’ve never looked through a credo. But to me, glass was nicer than NXS, reticle is better, and it has capped windage.

 

[JCMCUBIC]

That’s total elevation
The turret is rev limited by design


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My understanding is as amassi noted, it's total travel (=/-). It has limited travel compared to a lot of scopes, which is probably why S&B originally made it with a 3.2 mil BDC and with this version limited it to 4.8. As I noted with mine, this may put a limit on how much inclination the mounts you use can have. The 25 MOA mount I originally started with was to much, the 20 MOA worked....with consideration that both are 0'd at 200 yards.

I feel like the glass is better than the NXS 2.5-10x42. I spent some time this past weekend shooting and dialing with the scope and prefer it to the NXS for optical qualities. It has been repeatable, reliable, and exact in adjustments in my use so far.

Regarding the focus ring and use of flip caps, this hasn't been an issue for me in use. I had S&B set the parallax to 250 when I had the conversion done and I haven't needed to touch the focus other than the initial focus. Optically, it has a much better depth of focus than the NXS 2.5-10x42 which requires parallax adjustment at different ranges and tied to that is the power setting of the scope....it results of great resolution on target, but it has to be adjusted to get it. The S&B is much more forgiving here and I've not needed to remove the ocular cap while shooting because of this.

 

[Macintosh]

Ditto on the ocular, I twisted it to get a crisp reticle and havent touched it since—I definitely use a scope cap. The depth of field is very good, very noticeably better than any of my other scopes, so have not felt the need for parallax adjustment. I had parallax set to 225 when I added the dial, you can see slight ocular distortion around the periphery of the lens only when you have both magnification turned up AND you are at very close range (50 yards ish). But since Im always on lower mag until I get to longer range it has been clear and crisp from 20 yards out to well past the range Ive ever shot it. Actual parallax error at ranges the scope is capable of dialing to has been a non-issue for me.

Jerry at s&b had told me the internal travel was 40moa, which is a bit more than 10.8 mils, but very close—when we emailed I think this was all very new to them so it may have been an estimate. If 10.8 is the actual total travel, assuming your zero is in the actual center of the scope, you have 5.4mils of room, so that means the full 4.8 plus a little wiggle room for your zero/at the top of the erector. Im guessing since they made a change that the 4.8 is as much elevation as they thought they could reliably get out of the scope, and in theory should allow a flat mount. Looks to me that a 10moa or 5moa rail (if one exists??) would be perfect as well.

 

[Macintosh]

Re zero retention. Before I bought mine I messaged with our resident rifle-tosser who indicated these are fairly reliable in his experience. Ive only had mine for about a year and a half, but I did fly to wyoming with it—I actually watched a baggage handler through the plane window THROW my rifle case onto the conveyor at least 5-6 feet, plus whatever other bumps and vibrations it gets between northern vermont/chicago/denver/casper. Zero was exactly where it had been, didnt even adjust it a tenth. (Edit—also still zeroed when I got home.) I also fell hunting here at home later that fall, following a track in new snow here at home. I was on a pretty steep slope and my feet just went out from under me in the snow when I stepped on a dead branch, and I landed full body weight on top of the scope/rifle. Knocked the wind out of me. Checked zero the next day, it was still dead-nuts on zero. It also has none of the small error several of my other scopes have had where I chase zero around a few tenths at a time while zeroing—if your group is .3 mils from center, 3 clicks gets you exactly where it needs to be and it stays there. I cant claim to be the most abusive guy out there and its still only a year of use, but so far so good, its been a very low-drama scope.

 

[TxLite]

Re zero retention. Before I bought mine I messaged with our resident rifle-tosser who indicated these are fairly reliable in his experience. Ive only had mine for about a year and a half, but I did fly to wyoming with it—I actually watched a baggage handler through the plane window THROW my rifle case onto the conveyor at least 5-6 feet, plus whatever other bumps and vibrations it gets between northern vermont/chicago/denver/casper. Zero was exactly where it had been, didnt even adjust it a tenth. I also fell hunting here at home later that fall, following a track in new snow here at home. I was on a pretty steep slope and my feet just went out from under me in the snow when I stepped on a dead branch, and I landed full body weight on top of the scope/rifle. Knocked the wind out of me. Checked zero the next day, it was still dead-nuts on zero. It also has none of the small error several of my other scopes have had where I chase zero around a few tenths at a time while zeroing—if your group is .3 mils from center, 3 clicks gets you exactly where it needs to be and it stays there. I cant claim to be the most abusive guy out there and its still only a year of use, but so far so good, its been a very low-drama scope.

Thanks. I got tired of chasing my tail with wandering zeroes and RTZ failures on my vx5 and viper pst and have since made it a top priority. Nothing like a zero shift on a paved highway in a pelican case.

 

[eamyrick]

Got one mounted up on my custom 338 Federal and just picked up another for my Brown Precision 30-06.

 

[Kimber7man]

Got one mounted up on my custom 338 Federal and just picked up another for my Brown Precision 30-06.


View attachment 567393View attachment 567394

Very nice looking! Assuming it's confirmed they are 0.1 mil clicks?

 

[eamyrick]

Very nice looking! Assuming it's confirmed they are 0.1 mil clicks?

These are both the old version and are 3.2 mil travel and .1 mil adjustments. Plenty for my hunting needs. If I wanted a 6-800 yard scope I’d get a NF.

 

[atmat]

I feel like the glass is better than the NXS 2.5-10x42. I spent some time this past weekend shooting and dialing with the scope and prefer it to the NXS for optical qualities. Optically, it has a much better depth of focus than the NXS 2.5-10x42

I totally agree on the image. The 2.5-10 NXS isn’t bad per se, it’s just not great. And I get that scopes are primarily an aiming device. But I do hunt a lot of whitetail in hardwood/low light situations where the better image quality is helpful.

Regarding the focus ring and use of flip caps, this hasn't been an issue for me in use… The S&B is much more forgiving here and I've not needed to remove the ocular cap while shooting because of this.

That’s good to know! I was concerned I’d be adjusting the focus knob a lot, particularly with fixed parallax. I’m still skeptical of using flip ups, as I do plan on letting my daughters use the scope. But I guess they can easily pull off to adjust before the hunt.

 

[atmat]

Looks to me that a 10moa or 5moa rail (if one exists??) would be perfect as well.

What would be the purpose of an angled rail with this scope? You’re not getting anymore travel out of the erector, since it’s the turret itself that’s rate-limiting.

 

[Macintosh]

The 2 advantages I could see are 1) allowing for a zero that might be slightly to the wrong side of actual scope center, so ensuring you get the full 4.8mils of useful adjustment. Otherwise its probably fine but close so not a lot of wiggle room. And 2) keeping the useable adjustment range from 0 through 4.8mils closer to the center of the erector mechanism so its never maxed out, as I have been told at the extreme ends of mechanical travel is where you are most likely to have a problem or inconsistency. I have not personally had issues with this that I can confirm, but it is “common knowledge” that makes intuitive sense to me, for whatever thats worth.