Rules of thumb that didn't work out for you

[Hoodie]

I've been thinking a lot lately about common "general rules", strategies, and tactics that don't apply everywhere or that I feel I've debunked (at least in my specific context). Some of these things I picked up from mule deer and whitetail gurus, but for the most part I feel that deer are deer, especially mature bucks. Most of the differences in behavior I think are more attributable to habitat and pressure than to species characteristics.

Here's my list of debunked deer theories:


1) Wind based bedding for bucks

I listened to a bunch of Dan Infalt stuff and went out and checked every leeward point I could find in my huge hunting area. Lo and behold they all had deer beds. Often with buck specific sign around them. Then I found about the same amount of buck bedding on windward ridges. In my area (West Cascades in N. Oregon) the only real trends I see for buck bedding are upper 1/3 of the ridge, STEEP, and with good visibility of the area below. The edge between big timber and thicker stuff is also a plus, but they'll bed in wide open old growth if it's steep.


2) Blacktail bucks have tiny home ranges

Not in big mountains with small, scattered pockets of good feed they don't. I could see this being true in the valley and true-ish in the coast range where there's more clearly defined boundaries between feeding and bedding areas. Where I'm at, bucks can move decent distances even outside the rut. When you do find a homebody buck it's great because they're way more killable than the roamers.


3) High country deer are migratory

This varies based on the specifics of a given mountain/range. In one area I hunt, the deer migrate 3-4 miles as the crow flies and you don't see them on summer range again until July. In most of my areas, many of the bucks will stay as high as they can year round and will move up and down with snow line. They will tolerate way more snow than you'd think. I found three years worth of sheds off my biggest buck the week before I killed him. They were at the top of the mountain (4200ft). That buck was one of the rare homebodies.


What blacktail theories do you feel like your personal experience contradicts?

 

[limpet]

First light and last light are the best times to find a big buck. I’ve killed or spotted most of my big bucks up feeding or moving between 8-10 am.

 

[tttoadman]

Following up on Limpet...I too see more good blacktail bucks between 9AM and 1PM. These guys are way too smart and i think they are more vulnerable moving to a daytime bedding area mid morning or getting up for a mid day stretch before laying right back down again.

Bedding:
I find the high altitude blacktails bed wherever it is good as long as it is shady. They seem close to the top where all the wind swirls around with multiple escape routes.

Home range and migratory:
I know the deer in my area migrate down a bit. I am at about 5000 to 5500. I do think the big bucks hold out as long as possible. I think they love there home bed, and will keep it as long as they can drop 500-1000 for food.

 

[sierracharlie338]

“Rule of thumb, can’t do much with that, probably shoulda be rule of wrist!”

Bonus points for anyone that can name that movie….

Agree on first or last light not being productive. I’ve seen more mature deer during times other than those two time frames.

 

[elkliver]

When hunting southern Oregon, it is often very hot unless you get lucky and get weather. When its hot, you will hardly ever see deer except for first or last light. They tend to bed in heavier timber where it's cool. so that rule may be accurate

 

[RockAndSage]

More of a desert mule deer hunter that occasionally hunts blacktail, rather than a blacktail hunter busting myths that don't crossover as well, but a lot of what I do in finding muleys has limited applicability to coastal blacktail in CA. It's a little more applicable further into the interior of CA, where it's hot and the vegetation isn't as dense. Short version: glassing has decreasing payoff the denser the vegetation.

That's a bit "obvious", but where to glass from and where to glass into changes a bit - it's harder to find a good spot to glass from, where you can "let your optics do the walking", and get visibility into a bunch of places that are likely to hold deer. And there's just a heck of a lot more feed and cover, and I've needed to move more often to get visibility into different areas.

What does seem to work well is crossover between dense-timber muleys and blacktail. Hunting burns and cuts seems the most productive, along with scouting hard along treelines to find big-buck sign to and from feed/bedding, and setting up a hunt plan around that. What others said above about bigger bucks being up high, steep, with good visibility also seems to hold true.

 

[Hoodie]

The above post about glassing matches my experience perfectly. The number one thing that helped me start seeing some success was caring less about glassing up bucks. Committing to hunting them deliberately in the timber made a big difference for me.

I still use glass as a valuable scouting tool during the summer, but it's not the way for me to kill deer in Oct. where I hunt.

I also think that's related to the first light/last light rule of thumb. If you are in the thick stuff and close to bedding they will be up and moving during daylight hours. If you aren't right on top of bedding you'd think they were completely nocturnal outside the rut.

 

[Steve300xcw]

Seen a lot of animals in that 9-10am window when the sun. Finally pops over the ridge and warms things up.

Blacktail is goona do wtf it wants, no matter what the books say..

 

[need4sneed]

Used a tracking dog this last fall and the handler had a lot of experience under his belt.
I asked if any of the old wives tales of wounded deer had proven true, ie: “do they go to water when they’re hit?”, “Down hill?”, “J-hook back around?”, etc.

He very promptly and plainly said “no” and explained that there was really no rhyme or reason to what a deer’s going to do.

*Edit: ……didn’t catch that it was in the blacktail thread. Pry should have gathered that based on the posts alone. I don’t know jacksh*t about black tails and neither does this dog handler.

 

[NRA4LIFE]

I see the vast majority of the BT's in my yard during the middle of the day.

 

[<cascadehunter>]

Echoing a lot of you guys. I hunt clearcuts in that 2-4k ft range (probably more commonplace for the casual BT hunter) I’m catching way more deer on the move 1-2 hours after sunup than the traditional “15 minutes”. My guess is they’re out to feed pre-dawn and I’m seeing them go back to bed

 

[Andrew12gauge]

“Rule of thumb, can’t do much with that, probably shoulda be rule of wrist!”

Bonus points for anyone that can name that movie….

Agree on first or last light not being productive. I’ve seen more mature deer during times other than those two time frames.

Boondock saints is a great movie…. Unfortunately I rarely have time to sit and watch that kinda movie with 4 kids under age 12 in my house.

As to all this blacktail knowledge I love reading from the experienced guys because one of these years I’m gonna head west to Oregon and try my hand at blacktail hunting


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[RockAndSage]

Echoing a lot of you guys. I hunt clearcuts in that 2-4k ft range (probably more commonplace for the casual BT hunter) I’m catching way more deer on the move 1-2 hours after sunup than the traditional “15 minutes”. My guess is they’re out to feed pre-dawn and I’m seeing them go back to bed

I'm fairly certain that rule of thumb has to do with direct sunlight/heat, which desert or open-country muleys get hit the hardest with. Generally speaking, after about 30 mins past sunrise, the only time you'll catch them up is for a minute or so in changing beds as the sun moves overhead, to get more shade. That's why it's so important to stay in the glass throughout the day, when a lot of other guys have gone back to camp to nap. Interior blacktails in CA seem to act more this way too, with brutal sun and 100F days absolutely normal to hunt in. But coastal ones north of SF seem more willing to browse longer in the mornings. The only thing that makes sense so far is greater cover, coolness, and less pounding sun.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Boondock saints is a great movie…. Unfortunately I rarely have time to sit and watch that kinda movie with 4 kids under age 12 in my house.

As to all this blacktail knowledge I love reading from the experienced guys because one of these years I’m gonna head west to Oregon and try my hand at blacktail hunting


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Yes!! A true classic IMO. Definitely not a kid movie

I’ll have a coke!

 

[NRA4LIFE]

Boondock saints is a great movie…. Unfortunately I rarely have time to sit and watch that kinda movie with 4 kids under age 12 in my house.

As to all this blacktail knowledge I love reading from the experienced guys because one of these years I’m gonna head west to Oregon and try my hand at blacktail hunting


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If you want great BT knowledge, get a hold of one of Boyd Iversen's books.

 

[Hoodie]

Scott Haugen's book is another one to add to the Blacktail library.

 

[limpet]

A second for Scott Haugen’s book. I also got Steve Isdahl’s book when it came out. It’s full of good information but also loaded with errors that make it difficult to read. I wish he gave it to an editor or a local highschool English teacher to skim at least.

Thinking back on my mid morning movement comment earlier there is a key piece that goes with it. Almost all of the movement I have seen in broad daylight has been under a visible moon. Meaning that the moon was actually up and visible during the day time. I’m not sure why this is but I was told that they’re active when the moon is up no matter the time of day or night. They may only be up and moving in the shaded timber if it’s hot but they’ll be up moving. This is coming from a really good blacktail guide that’s probably seen more booner blacktails hit the dirt than anyone.

 

[AM_Hunter]

I'm fairly certain that rule of thumb has to do with direct sunlight/heat, which desert or open-country muleys get hit the hardest with. Generally speaking, after about 30 mins past sunrise, the only time you'll catch them up is for a minute or so in changing beds as the sun moves overhead, to get more shade. That's why it's so important to stay in the glass throughout the day, when a lot of other guys have gone back to camp to nap. Interior blacktails in CA seem to act more this way too, with brutal sun and 100F days absolutely normal to hunt in. But coastal ones north of SF seem more willing to browse longer in the mornings. The only thing that makes sense so far is greater cover, coolness, and less pounding sun.

Interestingly enough all the opportunities we have had on desert Mulies in CA have been 8-10am, and one at 1pm on hot september days. Up moving through to bedding areas.

 

[RockAndSage]

A second for Scott Haugen’s book. I also got Steve Isdahl’s book when it came out. It’s full of good information but also loaded with errors that make it difficult to read. I wish he gave it to an editor or a local highschool English teacher to skim at least.

Thinking back on my mid morning movement comment earlier there is a key piece that goes with it. Almost all of the movement I have seen in broad daylight has been under a visible moon. Meaning that the moon was actually up and visible during the day time. I’m not sure why this is but I was told that they’re active when the moon is up no matter the time of day or night. They may only be up and moving in the shaded timber if it’s hot but they’ll be up moving. This is coming from a really good blacktail guide that’s probably seen more booner blacktails hit the dirt than anyone.

Man, that is super interesting. And it makes sense. Whitetail guys swear by moon cycles, but it's a lot more hit or miss with muleys. That said, with muleys it seems related to how long they can stay up feeding - full moons seem to correlate with them bedding down a bit later, with full bellies, after eating all night, and maybe getting up a bit later in the evening too. With no moon, that seems flipped a bit, with them up earlier to feed while they can with more light. I'm not certain about this, but it's a strong suspicion. And, it seems related to your thoughts somehow.

 

[RockAndSage]

Interestingly enough all the opportunities we have had on desert Mulies in CA have been 8-10am, and one at 1pm on hot september days. Up moving through to bedding areas.

I've heard this referred to as going from "first bed" to "second bed", when they get up during that 8am-10am window, and those can be a ways apart. But they'll essentially stay in that second bed all day, but stand to move a few feet mid-day to move as the shadow's move from the sun. A lot of guys get busted trying to put a stalk on after seeing a buck bed down after sunrise in first bed, not realizing they're still going to move to second bed. After they hit second bed, you're good to put a stalk on in that window up until about 1pm you mentioned. In some areas in the high desert, that window right after the mid-day move can be really still with the wind, and be a great window to put that stalk on, until about 3pm or 4pm, when the wind picks back up again.