Rip my rookie OTC elk plan apart

[SoloWilderness]

I think I was thinking about doing things in the wrong order.

My plan was to go to areas where elk "should" be and then set up shop and start glassing morning/evening and still hunting during the day. Now that sounds like a recipe to waste a lot of time.

It sounds like the better plan is to create a ~10-15 mile loop from the truck and back with ~15 spots where elk "could" be. Then throw your pack with 4 days rations on and start hoofing it (while being aware of wind). If you don't find any sign... get in the truck and move to the next zone/loop and repeat. If you do find good sign, start triangulating food/water/cover and then figure out a way to hunt the area.

This also explains why conditioning is so important... I though it was just flatlanders needing to get ready to move in the mountains and potentially pack out an animal. It sounds like if you're doing it right, you could have several days where you're hustling while carrying a load before you slow down and really hunt.

Sounds like you are headed in the right direction by hunting an area that you have experience in. I've hunted the same general OTC area for close to 20 years, and it took me several years of setting up a big stationary camp and hunting out from it to realize that pressure is one of the key factors to locating elk in the OTC areas. Use the trailheads, outfitter camps, and groups of other hunters to your advantage. Look for steep escape areas that other hunters will push elk into, that are too nasty for your average weekend warrior to pursue them in. Once you identify these areas, run loops through areas that you think are productive, and look for signs of seeps, fresh wallows, feed meadows, and bedding areas. I do employ the loop hunting strategy quite extensively, focusing on picking apart a major canyon or drainage with each loop. I would identify the nastiest, hardest to access drainages in your general area, and focus on those. Try to locate areas of sign during your pre-season scouting, without stomping all over the place too close to the season.

If I'm running a 4 day loop, I would pick a drainage that I can access from the side, get to the very top of it and glass hard, try to identify a few groups of elk to work. Then sweep down across your basin without losing much elevation, and work in on these groups of elk, being mindful of the wind, and of blowing out your other groups. End your days on high points that you can glass from, and key in on areas that are the edge terrain, not necessarily the big meadows. I try to set up in a spot that I can glass from and watch for elk moving from feed to cover at first light while I pack up and eat my breakfast. Think mixed brush, aspen and timber, with some grass and water mixed in. Glass hard, and listen at night for elk noises, in heavily pressured OTC country you can sometimes hear the herds moving away from pressure. Often this is not full rip bugles, but rather "murmuring" as the cows quietly keep the calves close, and the bulls occasionally bugle to keep the herd together in the dark. Once you locate elk, hunt them hard, as they will move frequently in the OTC areas. Be mindful of your wind, and set up your camp spots so that your scent is carried into adjacent basins, rather than down into the one you are hunting. Above all, be flexible, if you don't find FRESH sign, keep moving until you do.

I am a mediocre caller, so tend to run as silent as possible if I'm solo, not even cow calls if I have elk located. Just listen for the elk and creep in on them, don't give them a reason to look for you by calling. If I'm with my hunting partner, who is a great caller, I run silent and let him draw the attention.

 

[caltex]

Sounds like you are headed in the right direction by hunting an area that you have experience in. I've hunted the same general OTC area for close to 20 years, and it took me several years of setting up a big stationary camp and hunting out from it to realize that pressure is one of the key factors to locating elk in the OTC areas. Use the trailheads, outfitter camps, and groups of other hunters to your advantage. Look for steep escape areas that other hunters will push elk into, that are too nasty for your average weekend warrior to pursue them in. Once you identify these areas, run loops through areas that you think are productive, and look for signs of seeps, fresh wallows, feed meadows, and bedding areas. I do employ the loop hunting strategy quite extensively, focusing on picking apart a major canyon or drainage with each loop. I would identify the nastiest, hardest to access drainages in your general area, and focus on those. Try to locate areas of sign during your pre-season scouting, without stomping all over the place too close to the season.

If I'm running a 4 day loop, I would pick a drainage that I can access from the side, get to the very top of it and glass hard, try to identify a few groups of elk to work. Then sweep down across your basin without losing much elevation, and work in on these groups of elk, being mindful of the wind, and of blowing out your other groups. End your days on high points that you can glass from, and key in on areas that are the edge terrain, not necessarily the big meadows. I try to set up in a spot that I can glass from and watch for elk moving from feed to cover at first light while I pack up and eat my breakfast. Think mixed brush, aspen and timber, with some grass and water mixed in. Glass hard, and listen at night for elk noises, in heavily pressured OTC country you can sometimes hear the herds moving away from pressure. Often this is not full rip bugles, but rather "murmuring" as the cows quietly keep the calves close, and the bulls occasionally bugle to keep the herd together in the dark. Once you locate elk, hunt them hard, as they will move frequently in the OTC areas. Be mindful of your wind, and set up your camp spots so that your scent is carried into adjacent basins, rather than down into the one you are hunting. Above all, be flexible, if you don't find FRESH sign, keep moving until you do.

I am a mediocre caller, so tend to run as silent as possible if I'm solo, not even cow calls if I have elk located. Just listen for the elk and creep in on them, don't give them a reason to look for you by calling. If I'm with my hunting partner, who is a great caller, I run silent and let him draw the attention.

Good stuff. Just added a lot of this to my summary doc of all the best advice I've received thus far.

I've been working through the Elk Nut app on calling. I'm improving, but the biggest thing I've learned is that I'm not even close to being a competent caller. I think I'll take a similar approach as you to calling this year. I'll have a mouth reed to do some basic cow calls when I make too much noise in the timber or to stop a bull when I'm at draw. Generally, I plan to stay silent.

When planning loops, I've been trying to decide whether to camp high or low. It sounds like you recommend high so you can be in a solid glassing spot at key times? Downsides to that I've been considering are a) thermals blowing out elk below and b) increased weather risk camping above treeline. I guess you just use prevailing wind to minimize a). And b) just comes with the territory and you need to use your judgement based on current conditions.

"Above all, be flexible, if you don't find FRESH sign, keep moving until you do."

Haha this lesson has been beaten into me now. I might put 200 miles on my boots and never see an elk this September, but I will not absolutely not settle in until I find fresh sign...

 

[JLeMieux]

When planning loops, I've been trying to decide whether to camp high or low. It sounds like you recommend high so you can be in a solid glassing spot at key times? Downsides to that I've been considering are a) thermals blowing out elk below and b) increased weather risk camping above treeline. I guess you just use prevailing wind to minimize a). And b) just comes with the territory and you need to use your judgement based on current conditions.

Like SoloWilderness mentioned, when possible you can camp right over the ridge from where you plan to glass from. This allows the thermals to push your scent down into the next drainage, not the one you're hunting.

 

[FlyGuy]

OP,

Great way to start a thread. Tip of the hat to you on that. We all love to talk elk hunting and when asked the correct way you can gain a ton of knowledge.

You are physically fit and training, you have some moral support, and you will be taking breaks to regroup mentally and physically. I think that will give you a great advantage this September. I think you have a real solid plan going and that’s about 75% of it. you’re getting good professional advice here in this thread, which will help fill in another very critical 15-20% of the puzzle.

Btw, The last 5-10% is just luck. You can do everything right on every day of a 10 day hunt, but a lot of the time you still need just a little bit of good luck to come your way. Sometimes it does, sometimes the bull just doesn’t step out from behind that 1 tree…. But with as many days as you are hunting your chances of having some good luck are greatly improved. (Bad luck is always guaranteed.). But like someone else said, you may not be successful in punching your tag this year, but if you can hunt this way for 2-3 seasons you will very likely be an elk killing machine. I’m jealous.


Here are a few tips and observations that I’ll chime in to the discussion:

- Camp where ever you are when it gets dark. Just try to find some level ground and beyond that I wouldn’t sweat it too much. Try not to do anything stupid with a camp site, but even if you do I don’t know how much it really matters if you are only in that spot from dark until dawn and moving camp your location every night. Elk are a lot braver at night, they will literally walk thru your campsite.

- I am a big proponent of bivy camping for elk. I’m also a big proponent of staying mobile. I mix the two accordingly. I’d do exactly what you said, plan a 15 mile loop with 4 days of food. If you are not into elk or elk sign then you should cover that loop in 2 days max. Then Get in the truck and go to plan B and do it again. If you do get into Elk you can be patient and take whatever time you need to create an opportunity.

- I personally don’t glass a ton for elk. Lots of others on here will disagree with that so you’ll just have to figure out what works best for you. It seems most areas I’m in have very little glassing opportunities. A meadow here or there, maybe a good view of a burn from time to time, but it not like I’m spending 3 hours glassing every morning and evening. Elk aren’t all that hard to see, so for me it’s maybe 30 min to an hour and then I’m moving. I’m pulling my binos out 500 times a day, but I’m moving. If you plan it right, you can try to get to a great glassing location an hour or so before dark. That will give you time to set up camp in the day light, then find a good perch to glass from while you eat your mtn house. You climb into bed an hour after sundown, get a full 8 hours of sleep while everyone else is hiking back out to their truck and then right back in the next morning. Then, you can set your alarm to go off 20min before legal shooting light. Pack camp, and eat a hot breakfast from your glassing perch. Then get moving again. As someone else already said, pick areas with a large number of “likely” feeding, bedding, wallowing, or travel locations. Then work through all those likely spots in a big loop. If you strike out, the next time try a different elevation. Do that enough and you’ll run into elk.

- I wouldn’t be afraid to bugle occasionally as you cover ground, even with heavy pressure. It’s a tool and it’s worth taking advantage of. I would also encourage you to wear a hunters orange cap or vest even tho you aren’t required. Odds of getting shot with a bow or MZ are low; but that’s not why I say it. I think it helps other hunters stay away from you. If they hear your bugle, but can spot you 200 yards away instead of 40 then everybody wins. No one wants to be on top of another hunter out there, but it’s easy to do when no one is wearing orange. If a hunter is headed to the ridge you are on but catches a glimpse of orange and then finds you in his binos from 500-1000 yards away, he will most likely move to his plan B rather than continuing to hike to your location and hunt right next to you.

- you’ll be out there a long time. Talk to people. ESPECIALLY people who are packing up camp. They may tell you exactly where they ran into elk. Talk to anyone who has an elk rack in camp. They’ll love to tell you the story of how it happened and you’ll love to hear it. Don’t ask where, but you can ask them what elevation. See where the conversation goes. Keep an icechest of cold beer in your truck too, helps make friends faster!

- lastly, the best advice I ever got was that success typically comes down to micro-decisions. Whenever you are having trouble deciding what you should do next, it’s always a safe bet to pick whichever plan is the most difficult. Short cuts often lead to hard lessons and rarely lead to results.

I hope some of this was helpful. Have a great time out there. I’d love to hear how you do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[ScreamingPotato]

- I wouldn’t be afraid to bugle occasionally as you cover ground, even with heavy pressure. It’s a tool and it’s worth taking advantage of. I would also encourage you to wear a hunters orange cap or vest even tho you aren’t required. Odds of getting shot with a bow or MZ are low; but that’s not why I say it. I think it helps other hunters stay away from you. If they hear your bugle, but can spot you 200 yards away instead of 40 then everybody wins. No one wants to be on top of another hunter out there, but it’s easy to do when no one is wearing orange. If a hunter is headed to the ridge you are on but catches a glimpse of orange and then finds you in his binos from 500-1000 yards away, he will most likely move to his plan B rather than continuing to hike to your location and hunt right next to you.

Love this. I always wear an orange hat (if conditions/situations allow) for the same reasons but also as a "why not." I know with 100% certainty if I see orange somewhere I'm not headed that direction so really appreciate when others wear it as well.

 

[dphifer]

Sounds like a good plan, I would defiantly not overdo it training and get hurt, sounds like you are doing way more than enough to be effective. You don't have to cover 15 miles a day to find elk, planning on that is good way to move too fast, bump elk and overlook good elk spots. Elk don't mind roads and they don't mind people either unless they are bothering them, just don't walk or drive past miles of great elk county to try to find backcountry elk.

There will be more elk down around the private than in the high country, elk love easy living and it doesn't get any easier than a quick walk down a draw to ag ground. Elk are plains animals and only go into the deep nasty country by necessity. A bugle tube in the dark may work much better than glassing all day, elk are vocal, more vocal at night and depending on weather and location they typically bed down shortly after sun rise.

Move slow and methodical, if there is a good bench put in the effort to check it out, find a good trail and follow it, never approach areas you think might have elk from upwind. In the morning hunt from the bottom up, thermals will be sucking down most of the morning, and if you sidehill above good elk habitat you will push the elk out without ever knowing they are there. Small areas can hold a lot of elk, and so can pocket areas near roads and people, don't overlook these areas. Spend some of your scouting driving around, and look for elk crossings on FS roads. Cold calling can be really effective if you are patient, mark areas you find elk or good sign on your GPS, mark good trails into an area with a track.

When it comes to elk hunting slow and steady wins the race, if elk aren't being vocal cover the country as slowly and methodically as possible. I have stood 30 yards from a group of cows and ripped bugles at them for 20 minutes without them even looking my direction, decided to keep going and bump them out of our way and when we did a big 6 point bull stood up from behind them and walked off as well without ever making a peep. Sometimes elk are just not vocal, that doesn't mean they aren't there!

Report back here after the season and let everyone know how you do! Good Luck!

Really enjoyed your perspective here. So much to think about and you covered a lot of it.

 

[SoloWilderness]

Good stuff. Just added a lot of this to my summary doc of all the best advice I've received thus far.

I've been working through the Elk Nut app on calling. I'm improving, but the biggest thing I've learned is that I'm not even close to being a competent caller. I think I'll take a similar approach as you to calling this year. I'll have a mouth reed to do some basic cow calls when I make too much noise in the timber or to stop a bull when I'm at draw. Generally, I plan to stay silent.

When planning loops, I've been trying to decide whether to camp high or low. It sounds like you recommend high so you can be in a solid glassing spot at key times? Downsides to that I've been considering are a) thermals blowing out elk below and b) increased weather risk camping above treeline. I guess you just use prevailing wind to minimize a). And b) just comes with the territory and you need to use your judgement based on current conditions.

"Above all, be flexible, if you don't find FRESH sign, keep moving until you do."

Haha this lesson has been beaten into me now. I might put 200 miles on my boots and never see an elk this September, but I will not absolutely not settle in until I find fresh sign...

Be cautious even blowing a cow call if you have an elk in close. I've had them turn themselves inside out they bolted so fast when I tried to stop them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I also don't drop into a canyon until the morning thermals are solidly moving uphill. By camping slightly back over an edge, you can position yourself so your air drops into a different basin at night. I stay high so I can get even in elevation with them if I'm stalking in midday, when the thermals swirl sometimes. Use a squeeze bottle of wind checker religiously, I carry 2-3 full bottles at the minimum for a week long hunt. I try and position to stalk down in the morning, and evenings will generally stay posted up glassing until the wind starts consistently dropping into the canyons before I make uphill moves. Part of learning your area is learning how the thermals act, mark them on your map. I also hunt my hardest and most aggressively if it's raining, as your scent and noise is suppressed.

I camp right at treeline, or high up on an open knife ridge that has some tree cover so even if my wind blows down, it disperses before it gets to areas that I think hold elk. Just use your best judgement, and watch out for lightning. It's more dangerous than snow is up high. I've camped within a few hundred yards of elk I located at dusk during a rainstorm and never had them blow out, so if it looks like rain, camp a bit lower so you are better protected, just find a spot you can watch a good feed meadow, and be discreet. Chances are they will feed out longer in the morning, and you may be able to make a move without breaking camp.

@FlyGuy sounds like he uses a similar hunting style to me. I agree with him on your approach as well, great way to start a conversation. Apply this methodical and persistent approach to your hunt, keep at it, expect to fail a lot before you succeed, and I'm sure you'll do awesome.

 

[dphifer]

Great post. As a total newb, I really enjoyed reading this thread. I am way behind, since this is something I just recently decided to learn, but this really gives me a lot to consider.