Rich Man's Sport

[wind gypsy]

In many states NR's subsidize R opportunity so NR tag allocation can help keep hunting accessible for the working class.

So what’s the alternative? i won’t argue that the discrepancy between r and NR fees is silly in places (looking at you, MT) but almost all states could still gain significantly more NR revenue if their goal was strictly to maximize it.

 

[MattB]

/So what’s the alternative? i won’t argue that the discrepancy between r and NR fees is silly in places (looking at you, MT) but almost all states could still gain significantly more NR revenue if their goal was strictly to maximize it.

It varies from state to state, but my sense is there is a balance that needs to be struck. My point was that NR participation and keeping R fees low are linked and not one or the other.

I saw something online that WY under 80/20 received ~77% of its revenue from non-resident hunters. It will be very interesting to see how WY's budget changes in the coming years given the shift to 90/10 for some specifies and the expected change from preference to bonus points which will disenfranchise many who have been in the PP game for a long time. Will those changes precipitate a future increase in R tag/license fees to replace lost NR revenue?

 

[KID]

Living in Idaho I see desperate out of state hunters poor in every year just for the chance to hunt. I don't blame you I would go where the access is too. Unfortunately for us residents we're seeing the decline in hunting success and quality. Lots of people and competition anymore. It's glaringly obvious that people are loosing access. It's a sad obvious truth. I'm going to enjoy hunting while it lasts and hopefully have a few memories with my kids. I'm more focused on enjoying my time outdoors, making memories with the family, and to harvest an animal is merely a bonus. And yes hunting is becoming more and more A RICH MANS sport! It's a ball of unfortunate that gets bigger every year.

 

[qwerksc]

Under the radar, night hunting…with the mayors daughter…it’s a protest move.

 

[ClearCreek]

I reviewed my prior post and see no no judgement as to weather or not I think federal regulation of state lands is a good or bad idea. Just that I consider it a right to hunt at reasonable prices. If the western states are not careful about their policies they may well find politically strong states taking a look at what is happening and thinking about it. I also recall that the US Department of Education was initiated under Ronal Regan of all people. The atmosphere around DC is far more socialist today than during the 80s.

You are not recalling correctly,. The U.S. Dept. of Education was created on October 17, 1979 under the Carter administration.

Regan was elected president in November 1980.

Some will say Carter created the DOE in exchange for the support of the of the teachers union, and therefor teachers.

ClearCreek

 

[Bubblehide]

Maybe I just suck at finding bucks, but I think the buck to doe ratios in those units could be much better and cutting the tags to 1 per person would help.

I don’t know how long they have been giving out 33.000 tags, do you?

I get it, I have a different outlook on opportunity, I like balancing opportunity with some quality of the hunt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah you do , just razzing you.

A very very long time.

I would prefer quality hunts. I've been around long enough to have had quality hunts in Ca. Some areas still provide quality hunts. But long ago, I cashed in my points and chose 2 zones. 1 is a guaranteed D zone. The other is an almost guaranteed draw. Both zones are very very tough hunts, or should I say, have very low success rates. I put in a tone of time to learn certain areas exceptionally well. I still put a ton of time staying up to date on them. But, in the absence of quality hunts that I can actually draw, I prefer to actually hunt.

 

[540-Virginian]

I do believe I have a right to hunt public land in another state at a reasonable rate. Is that more unreasonable than those states with public land (esp US land) raping out of state hunters? The end of that game may well be a new federal approach to land management. Why not? We have nationalized education, healthcare and many other activities that used to be the sole responsibility of the states.

Education is mostly state run not federal. As are state forests. Agree you should be able to hunt national forests nationwide at a reasonable rate (and you can unless Im wrong). So you have east and west coast.

In virginia, there are deer… plenty of deer. And turkey, and bear, all on national forest. Come on down! No you wont bag 150” deer, but if that’s not what you want what are your goals then?

It is kind of a double edge sword. More people - less fun hunting. But more people means more support to keep stuff open to hunting.

Im at the point where I enjoy running into and talking to someone in the woods now. I obviously dont try to bother anyone, but if they bump onto me by accident I always talk and plan and be happy someone shares the same passion I have.

 

[wind gypsy]

It varies from state to state, but my sense is there is a balance that needs to be struck. My point was that NR participation and keeping R fees low are linked and not one or the other.

I saw something online that WY under 80/20 received ~77% of its revenue from non-resident hunters. It will be very interesting to see how WY's budget changes in the coming years given the shift to 90/10 for some specifies and the expected change from preference to bonus points which will disenfranchise many who have been in the PP game for a long time. Will those changes precipitate a future increase in R tag/license fees to replace lost NR revenue?

WY could charge considerably more for NR tags and not have any issue selling them out.

 

[MattB]

WY could charge considerably more for NR tags and not have any issue selling them out.

Yes, but it may become more about the points that’s the actual tags. I am not bored enough to see if I can find they breakdown, but my sense is the point fees are more than the tag fees. If lots of guys bail on the point system, it could be pretty painful.

 

[sndmn11]

I live out in az and love hunting in Texas. I’d jump at an opportunity to whack a bunch of does, skin them quarter and fill my coolers. Always seems odd to me in the sense everyone seems to prioritize antlers. I love hunting and meat. Antlers are cool but I tend to hunt more does and pigs than anything else in tx.

I'm right there. I'd lose my marbles to hunt up a couple hundred pounds of pronghorn does. I'm sure deer would grow on me too.

 

[wingmaster]

Not trying to derail this disaster further but, the CA commission has recently proven themselves to be pro hunter. Crazy, I know. There are several proposals currently that are being looked at by the commission. More elk tags, second bear tag, and even a spring bear season, as well as others. If CA hunters really want these things to happen then please attend, virtually or in person, the commission meetings. You don't even need to speak, even just a large presence is very helpful. I would also recommend singing up at howlforwildlife.org to stay informed on not just CA issues. Here's the link to the 2023 commission meetings;

2023 Meetings

Official website of the California Fish and Game Commission

fgc.ca.gov

I attended that meeting virtually, what a train wreck. It was my first time observing the process and hoped to sit back and learn from speakers who presumably were more knowledgeable than I was on the issues. After a few speakers it was apparent to me that most of the anti-hunters had no clue what they were talking about, simply appealing to emotion and using straw man arguments that had nothing to do with the agenda being discussed.

 

[Pdzoller]

I can hunt any public land in any state I want with my camera. It’s honestly less work and less expensive. The season is year round!

 

[Cowbell]

If you really wanted to hunt, bet you could kill all the does and wild hogs you wanted in Texas for a very reasonable sum.

But what it sounds like is you really want to kill deer bigger than 150" on the cheap, which is a whole other discussion altogether.

If you want to hunt other states on the cheap, become a resident of one.

I, personally, don't have access issues. I personally lease 20,000 acres myself just to take friends who can't afford it or don't have the opportunity. That's where I'm seeing the issues. I know so many families that don't have the opportunity and quite never will unless someone looks out for them.

 

[Cowbell]

I did a quick search and it seems like there are much cheaper hunts for does in Texas than 5k. What’s wrong with that? There are also plenty of out of state hunts you can do for way less than 5k and have a really good chance of coming home with meat and at least some “inches” of antler.

Yes, today. But if you will reread my post, I'm concerned about the future.

 

[Cowbell]

States like Texas should create public land so I can come hunt it. The feds can nationalize some of it if needed. Why not? Oh, don't forget to keep the rates reasonable or those of us from other states might have a tantrum and come to take more. After all, it "is a right to hunt at reasonable prices." (Satire)


People who lived on the land had a tradition of hunting. Back when most of America farmed that was a lot of people. Now there are a lot of urbanites who like to pretend they live on the land without the sacrifices.

Buy land. I grew up poor, 5 kids in a single wide trailer, eating beans and rice for lunch and supper, but we had 25 acres and I had an air rifle.

Make the choice on what matters to you rather than complaining that the things you clearly only sorta want are not given to you by others.

I have never traveled to hunt a state I did not live in. Hunting the state I currently live in can be an expensive proposition even for residents.

Your response is based on a lot of assumptions. I have access to better hunting than most on this forum. I spend my fall putting friends on game, many who can't afford access so I cover for them. I'm concerned about the future. This is becoming a money race.

 

[Cowbell]

Living in Idaho I see desperate out of state hunters poor in every year just for the chance to hunt. I don't blame you I would go where the access is too. Unfortunately for us residents we're seeing the decline in hunting success and quality. Lots of people and competition anymore. It's glaringly obvious that people are loosing access. It's a sad obvious truth. I'm going to enjoy hunting while it lasts and hopefully have a few memories with my kids. I'm more focused on enjoying my time outdoors, making memories with the family, and to harvest an animal is merely a bonus. And yes hunting is becoming more and more A RICH MANS sport! It's a ball of unfortunate that gets bigger every year.

You sir get my point. I'm doing the same but I'm really concerned for my kids and grandkids.

 

[Gobbler36]

Guys,

I'm really struggling with where hunting is going. Western Hunting, in particular, is quickly becoming a rich man's game. Do you know that in the state of Texas - you can almost not afford to hunt if you are a low income household. Between the lack of public land, cost of private land, and insane lease prices - it's absolutely a rich man's sport. And im not talking about for places to kill giants. Where I live, 5K/gun will get you a lease where you are allowed one whitetail that will score 135-150. As tag prices across states with public land quickly rise, I fear for my kids opportunities. They shouldn't have to move to a western state to be able to afford to hunt.

Where have gone the days of hunting with brothers and fathers and not having to spend a life savings to do so. Is that not getting ridiculous. To harvest food that is God-given to our society to cherish as nutrition yet is it carries the price tag of a Kings table fare. What are we going to do to slow this madness? What are possible solutions?

Quit supporting the YouTube and insta hunters and the companies that support them and quit glorifying western hunting and we wouldn’t be in this mess but this is a good place to start then look at access

 

[Marbles]

Your response is based on a lot of assumptions. I have access to better hunting than most on this forum. I spend my fall putting friends on game, many who can't afford access so I cover for them. I'm concerned about the future. This is becoming a money race.

And your OP left many details out. However, if you own land and have money, great. Does not change my position. As for it being "a money race" that is how a free market works.

Where have gone the days of hunting with brothers and fathers and not having to spend a life savings to do so. Is that not getting ridiculous. To harvest food that is God-given to our society to cherish as nutrition yet is it carries the price tag of a Kings table fare. What are we going to do to slow this madness? What are possible solutions?

No one spends a life savings to put food on the table in America. People spend a life savings to hunt trophies. No one pays for a trip out of state just to get meat for the table either.

Conflating the two is strong evidence that your actual concerns are not presentable as they are, so lipstick must be put on the pig.

As tag prices across states with public land quickly rise, I fear for my kids opportunities. They shouldn't have to move to a western state to be able to afford to hunt.

Funny, that you have to be concerned about opportunities for your children, one way to address that is to not give so much to friends. I'm concerned for mine too, sheep hunting may be a thing of the past the way the population is declining. Animal density is much lower up hear because the land is much harder. Most of the good hunting with easy access is drawing only. Then you get a bunch of entitled people who think they deserve cheap access.

Keep giving away your own resources, that is commendable, when you feel the need to give away others resources you get SBF. If non-residents stop paying the price, tag prices will come down.

 

[Elkangle]

If it pays ..it stays


It sucks...but thats reality

 

[Yoder]

My God am I sick of you western state guys whining about too many hunters and access to land. Hunt PA,WI or MI. We probably have half the land and 5x more hunters. We pretty much get to hunt whitetails. No moose, elk, mule deer or antelope. You've had what, 4 or 5 years of hunting pressure. It's been a lifetime here. Most of you live in areas people only dream of hunting. I see your photos of the landscape and it is amazing. You guys should come east next year. Hunt PA,NJ,MD. Once you see how much that sucks compared to your home state, you'll be grateful.