Reticle Movement when Shooting

[TimberHunter]

All shots prone with bipod (have also tried off backpack prone and similar results) and suppressed. Right hand shooter. Can usually shoot 10 shots groups 1-1.5” at 100 yards

6.5 tikka, factory stock. With 147s, reticle will move up 2-3 mils and left 3-4 mils

22-250 tikka, factory stock. With 75s, reticle will move up a minimal amount, but left 3 mills. Some times I’ll only get 1 mill of movement (that is where I’d like to be 90%+ of the time, currently 10% ish)


I’ve been working on getting really square behind the rifle, so much so that it’s a bit uncomfortable lol. Any other suggestions, tips or tricks to better spot impacts?


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[mxgsfmdpx]

This is not an unrealistic result for factory Tikka stock and 6.5s shooting 147s in what I’ve seen from the vast majority of shooters. Probably a touch more than “ideal” for front bipod and prone but not terrible.

How “zoomed in” are you when normally shooting paper at 100 yards?

Go shoot from the same position and instead of a “target” shoot an 8” square or circle. Don’t “zoom in” more than 6-8 power. If you can easily spot your shot and easily keep the 8” target in your sight picture for an immediate back to center and shoot again, you are more than fine for hunting.

Next, ditch the bipod and practice it from various field positions.

 

[Shraggs]

Could an extra unfelt cheek pressure also contribute?

 

[TimberHunter]

This is not an unrealistic result for factory Tikka stock and 6.5s shooting 147s in what I’ve seen from the vast majority of shooters. Probably a touch more than “ideal” for front bipod and prone but not terrible.

How “zoomed in” are you when normally shooting paper at 100 yards?

Go shoot from the same position and instead of a “target” shoot an 8” square or circle. Don’t “zoom in” more than 6-8 power. If you can easily spot your shot and easily keep the 8” target in your sight picture for an immediate back to center and shoot again, you are more than fine for hunting.

Next, ditch the bipod and practice it from various field positions.

Zoomed in at 100 usually 10x or so. Usually shoot the same zoom (fixed 10SWFA, Maven RS1.2) at 400-800 yards. I can spot the impacts/dirt slash beyond 400 yards, but just barely with how the reticle is currently to moving.

Reticle stops to the left, doesn’t return to target until I move it back


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[TimberHunter]

Could an extra unfelt cheek pressure also contribute?

I’ll keep that in mind, I haven’t consider that. Thanks


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[Lawnboi]

Describe what you’re doing with your shooting hand during the shot.

How much cheek pressure are you using.

6.5 creed suppressed with a light gun in a factory tikka stock is going to be tough to spot sub 400 yards to begin with.

 

[Shraggs]

I’ll keep that in mind, I haven’t consider that. Thanks


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I’m no professional instructor, but I did introduce 2 friends to center fire rifles and and elk trip.

As they shot and worked on fundamentals they both threw bullets left and high. Both tikka 6.5 were under 1.5” for me with 140 eldm. Years of 12 gauge slug guns caused the them to have death grip and really pressing hard into stock with cheek.

Not saying that you. Just something I was able to see and help correct.

 

[Mike D Texas]

So are you off to the left or right of your target after the shot?


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[Fireflyfishing]

All shots prone with bipod (have also tried off backpack prone and similar results) and suppressed. Right hand shooter. Can usually shoot 10 shots groups 1-1.5” at 100 yards

6.5 tikka, factory stock. With 147s, reticle will move up 2-3 mils and left 3-4 mils

22-250 tikka, factory stock. With 75s, reticle will move up a minimal amount, but left 3 mills. Some times I’ll only get 1 mill of movement (that is where I’d like to be 90%+ of the time, currently 10% ish)


I’ve been working on getting really square behind the rifle, so much so that it’s a bit uncomfortable lol. Any other suggestions, tips or tricks to better spot impacts?


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How much ammo down range are we talking. Sounds like more trigger time would be a good place to start.

Threading said barrels and using either a brake or suppressor will make life much easier.

 

[TimberHunter]

How much ammo down range are we talking. Sounds like more trigger time would be a good place to start.

Threading said barrels and using either a brake or suppressor will make life much easier.

Both are shot with good sized suppressors

Ammo on the 6.5 is likely around 500-800 over the last 3-4 years. Most in the last 1-2 years

22-250 only had 60 ish. I thought it would be an easy button to my less than stellar form (self taught) but still getting a decent amount of left reticle movement


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[TimberHunter]

So are you off to the left or right of your target after the shot?


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The reticle always moves to the left. I’m a right handed shooter. From what I can tell I’m straight behind the rifle (no angle between body and rifle)


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[TaperPin]

Even for light recoiling guns, it’s good to have dummy rounds that can be mixed in with live rounds - if you have a slight hand or body movement during the shot it will jump out at you.

If that doesn’t show any weird movements, then it’s likely to be from trigger hand pressure, or the twisting reaction of the bullet going down the bore. For the bullet to rotate in one direction, the rifle wants to rotate the opposite direction.

 

[hereinaz]

The recoil will theoretically be straight back, and whichever way the rifle goes, that is where your body drives it because of the angles and pressure you put on the rifle.

Getting straight back is good to keep on the target, but fine tuning your position takes time. Play will everything that touches your stock.

With a right handed shooter, the cheek, the shoulder, the trigger hand, they all tend to push the butt stock to the right and muzzle to the left on recoil. You are actually inputting force, like a loaded spring, even with the rifle still, that upon recoil affect the rifle movement.

Questions I always ask myself and others.

Is your bipod actually square to the rifle? Does is recoil straight back?
Is your trigger finger or the trigger hand "pulling" the butt of the rifle to the right, making the muzzle go left?
Is your cheek pressure moving the stock to the right?

Is your support hand tucked up on the stock and controlling recoil by pinching it to avoid the lateral movement you are getting?

 

[Marshfly]

Zoomed in at 100 usually 10x or so. Usually shoot the same zoom (fixed 10SWFA, Maven RS1.2) at 400-800 yards. I

Zoom way out. Like...wayyy out. Try 4-800 at 6-8x. Try 100y at 4-6.

As said above, stop shooting at small spot targets. Shoot at a big square or circle and let your brain do the work to find center. Your brain will subconsciously put the center of the reticle in the center of the larger target much better than you consciously attempting to hold the crosshair on a tiny dot.

Groups will shrink when you do the above. Reticle movement will shrink. You will become much better of a shooter in general.

 

[E.Shell]

So are you off to the left or right of your target after the shot?

The reticle always moves to the left. I’m a right handed shooter. From what I can tell I’m straight behind the rifle (no angle between body and rifle)

Chase the reticle with your hips.

Straight behind the rifle has military value, but violates your natural point of aim and is causing your problem.

Just because the military does something a certain way doesn't mean it's right - ANY veteran can affirm this.

If your rifle recoils left, move your hips left. If the rifle recoils right, move your hips right.

You will find a spot where the reticle returns to the target after the shot. That spot is you natural point of aim and for best results, you should find it and stay there. We can talk more about it, but this will fix this issue.

 

[TimberHunter]

The recoil will theoretically be straight back, and whichever way the rifle goes, that is where your body drives it because of the angles and pressure you put on the rifle.

Getting straight back is good to keep on the target, but fine tuning your position takes time. Play will everything that touches your stock.

With a right handed shooter, the cheek, the shoulder, the trigger hand, they all tend to push the butt stock to the right and muzzle to the left on recoil. You are actually inputting force, like a loaded spring, even with the rifle still, that upon recoil affect the rifle movement.

Questions I always ask myself and others.

Is your bipod actually square to the rifle? Does is recoil straight back?
Is your trigger finger or the trigger hand "pulling" the butt of the rifle to the right, making the muzzle go left?
Is your cheek pressure moving the stock to the right?

Is your support hand tucked up on the stock and controlling recoil by pinching it to avoid the lateral movement you are getting?

Thanks for the info. Could be my trigger hand pulling the rifle into my shoulder. I already load the bipod a bit so no need to pull the rifle into the shoulder, I’ll try no trigger hand pulling back pressure

My support hand is on the rear back and touching the stock


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[TimberHunter]

Chase the reticle with your hips.

Straight behind the rifle has military value, but violates your natural point of aim and is causing your problem.

Just because the military does something a certain way doesn't mean it's right - ANY veteran can affirm this.

If your rifle recoils left, move your hips left. If the rifle recoils right, move your hips right.

You will find a spot where the reticle returns to the target after the shot. That spot is you natural point of aim and for best results, you should find it and stay there. We can talk more about it, but this will fix this issue.

Interesting, had not heard the chase the rifle with your hips until now. Maybe I misunderstood what others have said before but I had thought it was, if reticle is going left you are not straight behind the rifle enough. I keep getting straighter and straighter but no luck or difference.

I’ll give it a shot!


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[E.Shell]

I think you'll quickly see the difference. Think of the mechanics of resisting/absorbing recoil forces.

Being straight behind the rifle is taught at sniper schools and serves the purpose of making the sniper a smaller target and reducing muzzle jump. Being a well-conditioned 20 year old in top physical condition to resist recoil and with the flexibility to bend the neck over to compensate for the less-then-optimum position helps forgive this positional error, but almost anyone will see an improvement in comfort and return to battery with the correct natural point of aim.

 

[Rippey715]

Where’s your thumb? Are you wrapping/gripping like a pistol grip? Don’t. Look up a thumb shelf or basically every high end chassis has something like it to place your thumb near the bolt or trigger instead of wrapping your grip. Also check that you are doing a true 90 degree trigger press. Both of these issues cause a left ward turn for a right handed shooter during recoil.

Think about your trigger press as gripping a beer. Your right hand will turn inwards to the left as you grip and go to sip. That’s bad. Instead hold the beer with your palm and keep your thumb on your pointer finger knuckle instead of wrapping it around the can/bottle.

Good luck

 

[wind gypsy]

Trigger cam footage from accomplished shooters changed my perception of what these guys actually see for reticle movement.

Phil Velayo has a handful of videos on youtube that have trigger cam footage.

Chase the reticle with your hips.

Straight behind the rifle has military value, but violates your natural point of aim and is causing your problem.

Just because the military does something a certain way doesn't mean it's right - ANY veteran can affirm this.

If your rifle recoils left, move your hips left. If the rifle recoils right, move your hips right.

You will find a spot where the reticle returns to the target after the shot. That spot is you natural point of aim and for best results, you should find it and stay there. We can talk more about it, but this will fix this issue.

I dont think that's why they teach being square in current precision rifle courses. The below video has what i have seen to be typical justification for the squareness.

Maybe my mind isn't wrapped around this correctly but it seems that moving your hips to the left if your recoil movement is left is more likely to be offsetting cheek pressure or other forces pushing the butt right? Interesting input, i had not heard of or tried that before.