Reticle Movement when Shooting

[E.Shell]

Let's see how the OP does.

 

[Mike D Texas]

The reticle always moves to the left. I’m a right handed shooter. From what I can tell I’m straight behind the rifle (no angle between body and rifle)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you letting the rifle recoil or are you pinning it tightly to your shoulder?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Scottf270]

I know when I shoot with a bipod off of a bench, I get kick to the side if I don't put a pad or piece of carpet on the bench surface. Our local Shooting range has rough concrete benches and the rough surface won't allow the rifle to recoil smoothly.

 

[hereinaz]

Trigger cam footage from accomplished shooters changed my perception of what these guys actually see for reticle movement.

Phil Velayo has a handful of videos on youtube that have trigger cam footage.

I dont think that's why they teach being square in current precision rifle courses. The below video has what i have seen to be typical justification for the squareness.

Maybe my mind isn't wrapped around this correctly but it seems that moving your hips to the left if your recoil movement is left is more likely to be offsetting cheek pressure or other forces pushing the butt right? Interesting input, i had not heard of or tried that before.

I have a sneaking suspicion that there is some offset for the different positions. I do know they getting straight behind helps with recoil management 100%, but at fine tuning I think it’s been mentioned that it could be check pressure is some other little thing.

A problem is in the field that finely tuned offset at the range can be a detriment if it is a “hack” and not in the fundamentals.

I get snookered by range fixes that don’t translate to the field.

 

[taskswap]

Absolutely not a pro instructor here but what helped me most was changing my hand position. I'm sure there's a name for this, but rather than having my non-dominant (left) hand on the forearm, I hold my left thumb and forefinger pressed against my right shoulder, a few inches down. This makes a triangle out of my left arm the way some folks shoot off-hand with a sling for extra support, and greatly reduces any movement there. It also makes a cradle, the way a rear bag would work, for the butt of my rifle. Rather than "holding" the rifle against my shoulder, I can just let it "rest" on that cradle. Those two things reduced a lot of small movements for me. Effectively, the rifle is just resting on my backpack in front and this cradle in the back, and my right hand is just lightly on the grip. I'm not so much holding the rifle as I am serving as its human "sled". Sorry if I'm butchering the description.

 

[Lawnboi]

If you’re not putting negative input into the rifle or face or hand. It’s all npa. Most of the time your reticle moves where you don’t want it is because your npa is off and there is torque on the gun somewhere.

I wouldn’t plan on spotting shots from a 6.5 creed from anything but prone under 400. 400 is not terrible to see splash but to actually spot your shot it’s going to be very difficult with just about anything.

Competitors including myself do a lot of shooting at that range because the time of flight is so short. Makes spotting difficult and you really have to train your mind to watch while everything is still moving. Past 500 spotting becomes much easier.

 

[NSI]

Run this drill.

https://mdttac.com/watch/how-to-shoot-faster-and-accurate-natural-point-of-aim/

-J

 

[croben]

Are you checking your natural point of aim after getting set behind the rifle and before each shot? I see it often where people are muscling the gun because their NPA is off the target.

 

[E.Shell]

If you’re not putting negative input into the rifle or face or hand. It’s all npa. Most of the time your reticle moves where you don’t want it is because your npa is off and there is torque on the gun somewhere.

I wouldn’t plan on spotting shots from a 6.5 creed from anything but prone under 400. 400 is not terrible to see splash but to actually spot your shot it’s going to be very difficult with just about anything.

Competitors including myself do a lot of shooting at that range because the time of flight is so short. Makes spotting difficult and you really have to train your mind to watch while everything is still moving. Past 500 spotting becomes much easier.

Precisely. NPOA is what one fixes when they chase the reticle with their hips. If the rifle bounces left, move your belt buckle left... Often it is only a few inches needed.

BTW, shots can be spotted much closer than expected when NPOA, cheek weld and shoulder pressure are correct.

Are you checking your natural point of aim after getting set behind the rifle and before each shot? I see it often where people are muscling the gun because their NPA is off the target.

Precisely.


Hoping to hear from the OP...

 

[TaperPin]

Trigger cam footage from accomplished shooters changed my perception of what these guys actually see for reticle movement.

Phil Velayo has a handful of videos on youtube that have trigger cam footage.

I dont think that's why they teach being square in current precision rifle courses. The below video has what i have seen to be typical justification for the squareness.

Maybe my mind isn't wrapped around this correctly but it seems that moving your hips to the left if your recoil movement is left is more likely to be offsetting cheek pressure or other forces pushing the butt right? Interesting input, i had not heard of or tried that before.

I don’t pay much attention to NRL, but the top video solved a few mysteries. I’ve been wondering where in the world my nephew has been getting the bad habit of taking his eyes off the target when setting up for hunting shots. These guys look down a lot while focusing on getting the rifle in position with little need to keep eyes on target. I assumed the nephew was just being hard headed by continuing to do it, but now I see he’s trying hard to duplicate what NRL guys like this are doing in competition, and he hasn’t connected the dots.

 

[hereinaz]

I don’t pay much attention to NRL, but the top video solved a few mysteries. I’ve been wondering where in the world my nephew has been getting the bad habit of taking his eyes off the target when setting up for hunting shots. These guys look down a lot while focusing on getting the rifle in position with little need to keep eyes on target. I assumed the nephew was just being hard headed by continuing to do it, but now I see he’s trying hard to duplicate what NRL guys like this are doing in competition, and he hasn’t connected the dots.

I doubt that it is because of watching these videos, because the majority of shooters have this problem, and I have seen it in many who don't put any effort into learning...

 

[TaperPin]

I doubt that it is because of watching these videos, because the majority of shooters have this problem, and I have seen it in many who don't put any effort into learning...

He could get the idea from any shooters that don’t have to keep an eye on the target, but kids watch videos more than they ever watch good shooters elsewhere. We teach him to keep an eye on the target - he has picked up this bad habit from trying to emulate what he thinks is cool. I did have a chuckle at the scope cam video where the shooter lost track of the coyote target, and it didn’t even have legs.

He’ll stop doing it - it’s impossible to kill things you’ve lost track of

 

[E.Shell]

@TimberHunter : How did you do?

 

[TimberHunter]

@TimberHunter : How did you do?

Still trying to figure it out, haven’t seen any big changes from changing how straight behind the rifle I am. I’m starting to wonder if no reticle movement on a hunting rifle is a fallacy.

At this time with the 22-250 and 6.5cm, I can spot impacts (not bullet flight but hit/miss in the dirt) about 90% of the time at ranges of beyond 400. The 22-250 is a bit easier but the 6.5cm bullet is moving at 2500 fps so it gives me time to recover from the 3-4 mil of reticle movement


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[999delta]

This is my two cents. From an old guy that shot comps for a number of years, so take it for what it is worth. Being aware of your shoulder angle and this works for all positions. Shooting prone and your rifle is recoiling to the right. By moving your left elbow back a little your gun will respond. If your recoiling to left do the opposite. The other thing that would help. Was relaxing my neck and shoulders so head and cheek weld would stay in the gun through recoil.

 

[wind gypsy]

I don’t pay much attention to NRL, but the top video solved a few mysteries. I’ve been wondering where in the world my nephew has been getting the bad habit of taking his eyes off the target when setting up for hunting shots. These guys look down a lot while focusing on getting the rifle in position with little need to keep eyes on target. I assumed the nephew was just being hard headed by continuing to do it, but now I see he’s trying hard to duplicate what NRL guys like this are doing in competition, and he hasn’t connected the dots.

What part of the video are you talking about?

Hard to look at the target the same time as something else when you've got to move, check dope, etc.

 

[Formidilosus]

I’m starting to wonder if no reticle movement on a hunting rifle is a fallacy.

Of course it is. There is always going to be movement with normal rifles.

 

[TaperPin]

What part of the video are you talking about?

Hard to look at the target the same time as something else when you've got to move, check dope, etc.

Anytime they are setting the gun for the shot there’s a lot of looking down to get the rifle situated (11:50, etc) That makes perfect sense for competition. Even hunting with a spotter allows a lot less attention on the animal.

We have a lot of big sage in the foothills and when coyotes and deer stop moving, they can blend in pretty well - the old, “Where did it go?!?” Same for animals moving through the outer layer of trees - easy to see while moving, but just as easy to lose track of when stopped. Come to think of it, I’ve even lost an antelope as it walked off a high spot and I had no idea which direction they headed.

 

[TimberHunter]

This is my two cents. From an old guy that shot comps for a number of years, so take it for what it is worth. Being aware of your shoulder angle and this works for all positions. Shooting prone and your rifle is recoiling to the right. By moving your left elbow back a little your gun will respond. If your recoiling to left do the opposite. The other thing that would help. Was relaxing my neck and shoulders so head and cheek weld would stay in the gun through recoil.

Is this assuming you are a right handed shooter? Wondering how moving my left elbow (rifle butt pad is against right shoulder) would effect the shoulder angle?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[999delta]

It's your support arm or elbow in whatever position you are in. Next time you're out shooting prone try stretching left arm out a little as you are supporting or grabbing support bag. You will see your recoil move to the right of target. After a short time, it becomes part of your natural point of aim.