Required precision video and using WEZ

[Hummerdawg]

If recoil had no trade-offs, all the PRS guys would be running big 338's with 300 grain projectiles to minimize environmental effects.

The big cartridges make spotting hits/misses, quick follow-up shots, and managing recoil in compromised positions all more difficult.

Those trade-offs are why the PRS guys are shooting 25 lb. 6mm rifles.

Edited to add:
The whole point I was trying to make is that all of these trade-offs also apply to hunting scenarios and are magnified the lighter the rifle gets.

338's not allowed by rule

 

[huntnful]

I seriously love consuming all of this information, and applying it and shaping my mindset as well. I'm curious @Formidilosus at what actual distance do the bigger bullets, going faster, TRULY make sense?

These are two EXACT loads and platforms I am currently shooting.

6 PRC 10lbs scoped
109 ELDM
3150FPS
.290 G7

7-300 NMI 10lbs scoped
180 ELDM
3300FPS
.385 G7

Say they have the same exact accuracy on a bench. Shooting in field conditions, with field winds. At what distance would you personally switch over to the 7-300?

 

[Formidilosus]

I seriously love consuming all of this information, and applying it and shaping my mindset as well. I'm curious @Formidilosus at what actual distance do the bigger bullets, going faster, TRULY make sense?

These are two EXACT loads and platforms I am currently shooting.

6 PRC 10lbs scoped
109 ELDM
3150FPS
.290 G7

7-300 NMI 10lbs scoped
180 ELDM
3300FPS
.385 G7

Say they have the same exact accuracy on a bench. Shooting in field conditions, with field winds. At what distance would you personally switch over to the 7-300?

At mid DA (5k), when the vast majority of my shots on animals would be past 900’ish yards; and closer, quicker or less than perfect prone shots were not going to be a thing.

 

[huntnful]

At mid DA (5k), when the vast majority of my shots on animals would be past 900’ish yards; and closer, quicker or less than perfect prone shots were not going to be a thing.

Awesome. Thank you

 

[Macintosh]

338's not allowed by rule

Yes, but there are big magnum-ish cartridges that are allowed, and no one is using those either. Prs cartridges are getting smaller if anything, not bigger. Thats the point. Its why nrl hunter has a “power factor”, because otherwise people would “cheat” by using tiny cartridges to avoid the negative effect of recoil.

 

[Marbles]

FWIW the Bison Ballistics website also has a hit probability calculator you can play with. I'm curious how it compares to WEZ

Hit Probability Calculator

A free hit probability calculator for long range shooting.

bisonballistics.com

Thanks, playing with that; assuming I can only call wind within an SD of 8 mph, I should not be shooting at animals at 300 yards in the mountains. Discount wind, and I'm good to much further. Heck, even if I can call it within an SD of 5 mph I don't like the hit probability on an animal. 250 yards is were my 243 starts getting me above a 90% hit rate on an 8 inch target, 200 yards with my 223. The slight difference in precision (1.8 MOA for 243 and 1.4 MOA for 223) is immaterial.

On a 9 inch target, if I can only call wind within an SD of 8 mph, then with my 243 I should not be shooting past 200 yards if I want a 90% or higher hit rate.

 

[stan_wa]

Thanks, playing with that; assuming I can only call wind within an SD of 8 mph, I should not be shooting at animals at 300 yards in the mountains. Discount wind, and I'm good to much further. Heck, even if I can call it within an SD of 5 mph I don't like the hit probability on an animal. 250 yards is were my 243 starts getting me above a 90% hit rate on an 8 inch target, 200 yards with my 223. The slight difference in precision (1.8 MOA for 243 and 1.4 MOA for 223) is immaterial.

On a 9 inch target, if I can only call wind within an SD of 8 mph, then with my 243 I should not be shooting past 200 yards if I want a 90% or higher hit rate.

your giving your self a pretty bad wind SD error. a wind SD of 8 mph mean you pretty far off. thats saying 95% of the time your within 16 mph and 99.7 % of the time you within 24 mph. take whatever number you think you can call wind within most of the time, (lets say 95 % of the time to be precise) then divide that by 2 and use that input, this picture might add some insight in to the SD and a normal distribution.

 

[mtnbound]

your giving your self a pretty bad wind SD error. a wind SD of 8 mph mean you pretty far off. thats saying 95% of the time your within 16 mph and 99.7 % of the time you within 24 mph. take whatever number you think you can call wind within most of the time, (lets say 95 % of the time to be precise) then divide that by 2 and use that input, this picture might add some insight in to the SD and a normal distribution.


View attachment 733468

So, do all ballistic hit calculators, you still divide your estimated wind call by 2?

 

[Southern Lights]

The consensus of people I shoot with when we do field hunting comps, shooting schools, long range and guided hunts are that most shooters are in the 2-4MOA range in field conditions. Sub 2MOA shooters in field conditions are going to be rare. 4MOA is probably the average. Even with good wind calls, a lot of other errors blow the error rate above 2MOA in the field.

 

[Macht]

So, do all ballistic hit calculators, you still divide your estimated wind call by 2?

No, WEZ isn't a standard ballistic calculator. It's looking for uncertainties in the form of standard deviations. Normal ballistic calculators are asking for your best estimate/measurement of the wind conditions for the shot taking place.

 

[mtnbound]

No, WEZ isn't a standard ballistic calculator. It's looking for uncertainties in the form of standard deviations. Normal ballistic calculators are asking for your best estimate/measurement of the wind conditions for the shot taking place.

Bad question on my part. I meant to say ballistic Hit calculators like WEZ or Bison’s. I do not mean a ballistic calculator like Shooter.

 

[Southern Lights]

I'd err on more wind error than you think. For Bison's calculator if I assume 10MPH wind, I'd do +-3-5MPH. For 5MPH wind I'd do again more like +-1-2MPH error. Most people overestimate how good they are at reading wind just as they do everything else. Really good shooters I've seen are more like +-10% error, but that is really very hard to do on broken terrain at distance.

 

[stan_wa]

So, do all ballistic hit calculators, you still divide your estimated wind call by 2?

it depends on what the input in that calculator, if the input is standard deviation or sigma that not the same thing as average wind error for example I can’t speak to all hit calculations