RedKettle - 50% off sale

[mp12]

As someone who was/is looking at this jacket seriously- would you mind elaborating?

apologize, but I read your entire post but not a lot of useful info on the jacket except the box was trashed. can you expand on your design issue flaws?

I'm wondering the same thing... sounds like there are 6 design issues? But no idea what they are.

 

[Stu]

How many people are actually wearing their lightweight synthetic membraned jackets while moving in the field? How do you manage to keep them free of holes and tears? Who isn't dripping on the inside when you have to wear it while moving?

 

[Dobermann]

As someone who was/is looking at this jacket seriously- would you mind elaborating?

apologize, but I read your entire post but not a lot of useful info on the jacket except the box was trashed. can you expand on your design issue flaws?

Well ... of course there's an element of subjectivity to this, which is why I partly didn't include them initially.

However, seeing as some have asked, here are my personal opinions, briefly:

1. The 'storm flap' under the zipper is too narrow if its purpose is indeed to stop water that may come through the zipper.
2. The zipper feels clunky to me. Perhaps this is part of what makes it work - it's solid and thick plastic, rather than a smaller-toothed zipper, and doesn't have the same lamination that some of the 'inside out' zippers that seem to have become popular. However, it does feel pretty utilitarian and rough. Maybe, like Kifaru packs, the Lost Park Parka, and the Singi Stubben, I'll come to love this aspect of it in time ... but for now, 'clunky and chunky' is still the first impression.
3. The position of the hand pockets has them under a pack waist belt. I know this is common in other jackets also, but some dedicated backpacking jackets have worked out how to make pockets accessible with a pack on.
4. The zippers in the hand pockets are also directly under a waist belt.
5. The angle of the hand pockets doesn't feel natural or comfortable to me. Again, perhaps this is personal, but they're different from every other rain jacket I have, and my hands feel uncomfortable angling into them, and once in them.
6. The hood articulation doesn't seem to work as well as most other jackets I have. In my case, the elastic (which feels thick and obtrusive) also sits pretty low on my head and rubs against glasses / sunglasses. Again, this may well vary with head size, but I don't notice this issue with other jackets.

I do have some other minor issues, but these are a mix of aesthetic and utilitarian, and I'm not sure they're worth getting into.

Combined, these issues draw my attention to them when using the jacket so far. Again, maybe I won't notice them in time. But to me, one of the principles of good design is that users don't notice the design, because it fits well, is intuitive, has good ergonomics, and so on. If something has design issues that draw attention to themselves, this is an unnecessary distraction.

Before signing off, I just want to reiterate that these are my opinions and experiences only. If others have different experiences, that's great - I'm happy to hear them, but don't really want this to turn into a back-and-forth, so will try to leave it there from my end.

Overall, again, I'm glad I bought the jacket as it is now designed at that price point. The two main reasons are that I want to test, and support, natural fibre outdoor gear, and that at the price paid, I won't feel as bad about thrashing it.

And it feels like it will last a long time - which is refreshing in an age when some hunting clothing designs and trends feel like they have an element of 'fast fasion' (as just one example of this, how many of us here have/had one item of hunting clothing that worked great, but was discontinued for some unknown reason?).

If the design issues above were addressed in a v2, and that sold at the jacket's prior full price, it would still be a very high-priced item, but one that I think would have a lot of appeal.

 

[parshal]

My first impression of the hand pocket angle mirrors Dobermann. The pockets would definitely be under a waist belt but, let's be honest, there are only a few manufacturer's out there that take that into consideration.

The zippers are definitely beefy which I like. The jacket is a bit heavier than I thought it would be. Not just weight but expected warmth. It's not a light rain summer jacket.

This is certainly built around the design of the Barbour jackets meant for the Highlands chasing grouse and stag.

 

[slowelk]

I ordered the jacket during the sale too. I agree about the pocket layout, but as long as they aren't uncomfortable under my pack belt, I don't really care. Between a bino harness and a pack, most upper body pockets are useless on most garments, so that doesn't phase me.

The hood takes some tinkering, but it's alright one adjusted.

The jacket is heavy, and the zippers aren't smooth, but I'll give it a shake.

As for sizing reference, I'm a large-tall in sitka, got a large-tall in the M19 and it fits. I can even squeeze an SG down jacket underneath.

 

[N.ID7803]

@slowelk that Slow Elk is some good stuff!

 

[Firth]

6'1" 200 lb. Chest measurement is in the upper middle of "large", waist is on the lower end of "large", and arms are right in the middle of "large". Ordered a large wind jacket. Length and fit around the midsection are good. The one spot that is a bit tight is the shoulders. I'll have to decide if I need to bump up to an XL. Fit is not terrible but noticeably snug. The last time I ordered a jacket I had to go to an XL for shoulders and that always seems to be the tradeoff - go bigger for shoulders versus being much bigger than I need through the torso. Other than shoulders fit is good with a base layer and Patagonia R1.

After trying it on after a few days I decided to send it back. Too tight through the shoulders, and gear that doesn't fit doesn't get used. I'd have liked to exchange it, but everything is sold out. When I enquired about a return I was told "as this jacket was a sale item, you will need to cover the cost of returning this to us in the UK". They make a point of advertising their return policy all over - 30 days first return, we pay 1st return - so that was not what I was expecting. I can understand their point of view, but to me it's still bad policy to advertise one thing and do another.

I'd love to swap someone that got an xl-regular but wants a large-regular, or I'd sell for $140 to one of you guys who missed the sale. My cost was $132.50, just trying to recoup some shipping.

 

[fwafwow]

After trying it on after a few days I decided to send it back. Too tight through the shoulders, and gear that doesn't fit doesn't get used. I'd have liked to exchange it, but everything is sold out. When I enquired about a return I was told "as this jacket was a sale item, you will need to cover the cost of returning this to us in the UK". They make a point of advertising their return policy all over - 30 days first return, we pay 1st return - so that was not what I was expecting. I can understand their point of view, but to me it's still bad policy to advertise one thing and do another.

I'd love to swap someone that got an xl-regular but wants a large-regular, or I'd sell for $140 to one of you guys who missed the sale. My cost was $132.50, just trying to recoup some shipping.

Not to pile on - I'm keeping both of my jackets (the Wind Shell and Light Hunting Jacket) - but here are some additional thoughts.

• @Firth - sorry about the return policy. I had read it like you, and it's one of the reasons I decided to buy both. IMHO they could clarify the website to exclude sale items and/or items shipped outside of the UK
• The jackets fit differently at least for me (~6'2", 205lbs and 41" chest):
  • The Light Hunting Jacket has more room in the chest, shoulders and arm pits. I had no problems with adding a Woolpower 600g merino base later (which is thick enough to be more like a sweater). Adding a FL Brooks Down Sweater put me at the limit of comfort in arm movement due to the armpit size.
  • The Wind Shell is tighter. Putting on just the Woolpower was about the limit for me at the armpits.
• I don't mind the pockets, although they are a bit more shallow than I'm used to (but other pockets make up for the volume needs).
• I like a chunky zipper, but these are a bit finicky to get started.

I still like the purchase and will be wearing the Wind Shell as my first use - in the wilds of downtown San Fran... I would consider buying a 2.0 version, but I would size up if I planned to do much layering.

 

[BBob]

They did show the return shipping limitations on the sale stuff somewhere in the process. I saw it but I want to say it wasn’t as upfront and obvious as it should have been. It gave me a little pause and why I only tried the wind shell. I can’t remember at this point how exactly it was presented though.

My zipper on the wind shell is a little finicky starting too and being Euro on the wrong side doesn’t help either. Lower pockets are short ish but not something I care much about. I never cared one way or another on my jackets that have raised pockets for use with pack waist belts. The shirt reminds me of the old army field jackets (I still have one with the cold weather liner from the 80’s). Bulky zippers, tight weave cotton fabric, etc… Sort of retro and back where we started years ago

 

[Firth]

They did show the return shipping limitations on the sale stuff somewhere in the process. I saw it but I want to say it wasn’t as upfront and obvious as it should have been. It gave me a little pause and why I only tried the wind shell. I can’t remember at this point how exactly it was presented though.

Yeah, it wasn't my intention to be overly critical. I didn't see a clearance caveat, but I didn't look very closely either. I thought it was worth mentioning because I was guessing I'm not the only one who missed it. I'm not a serious lifter by any means, but I picked up weight training several years ago and since then I've had a lot more trouble getting sizing right on the first try. Shoulders always seem to be the problem, and there usually isn't anything in the sizing chart.

 

[fwafwow]

Yeah, it wasn't my intention to be overly critical. I didn't see a clearance caveat, but I didn't look very closely either.

Same. It could have easily been me.

I thought it was worth mentioning because I was guessing I'm not the only one who missed it. I'm not a serious lifter by any means, but I picked up weight training several years ago and since then I've had a lot more trouble getting sizing right on the first try. Shoulders always seem to be the problem, and there usually isn't anything in the sizing chart.

Fwiw I don’t lift and the sizing limits described above are for an out of shape 52 year old who was never “ripped” or anywhere close to it.

 

[Dobermann]

Between a bino harness and a pack, most upper body pockets are useless on most garments, so that doesn't phase me.

Good point ... I wasn't thinking that far ahead; I was just thinking about in a hiking context, as that's all I'd done so far.

 

[Hthunter]

Got my wind shell in today. I like it, just a little big for me. I ordered a large. If someone has a medium and would prefer a large shoot me a message and we can swap.

 

[dingle]

Received my hunting jacket today. Medium was the right call. Despite the puny hand pockets, I'm going to like this. Now I wish I had the wind shell in medium too. Holler if you have one to offload.

 

[parshal]

One thing I discovered yesterday is the Ventile doesn't block wind much. I had a t-shirt and sweatshirt on under it with a 15 mph or so wind and it cut right through. That kinda of surprised me.

 

[three5x5s]

One thing I discovered yesterday is the Ventile doesn't block wind much. I had a t-shirt and sweatshirt on under it with a 15 mph or so wind and it cut right through. That kinda of surprised me.

Ventile hunting jacket or Ventile wind jacket??

 

[parshal]

Hunting, M19.

 

[Dobermann]

Hunting, M19.

Good to know.

Keep the field reports coming, folks - I reckon we can help Christian take this to the next level with a v2.0.

 

[slowelk]

How many people are actually wearing their lightweight synthetic membraned jackets while moving in the field? How do you manage to keep them free of holes and tears? Who isn't dripping on the inside when you have to wear it while moving?

I do. I've crawled, busted brush, crossed fences, in multiple shell jackets.

I was intrigued by the M19 ventile hunting jacket, because I like my Fjallraven kebs, but it can't compete with the technical features of the SG M7 or Sitka Jetstream. The Redkettle might be tougher, but short of rolling around in barbed wire, I don't know what the M19 could stop that other moderately weighted shells couldn't.

I'd also like to say the the redkettle is HEAVY in comparison, blocks wind worse, doesn't fit as well, and obviously doesn't stretch. I see it becoming a fall/winter around town, range jacket, not a hunting jacket for me.

 

[BBob]

How many people are actually wearing their lightweight synthetic membraned jackets while moving in the field?

Never unless it’s actively raining.

I’ve been wearing the wind shirt out of the truck and around town. It layers great with an Arrowhead MLX MDWi Hoody or a North Face Thermoball. Working fine in the wind so far for me, mby not fantastic but it’s fine so far. I too doubt it will ever really become a regular hunting jacket for me. My current setup is lighter and works well for what I do.