Received the Vaccine today...

[fwafwow]

So why are people that have been vaccinated still required to wear masks and avoid gatherings?
The CDC site says they still don't know if the vaccine is 100% effective at protecting you from getting Covid.
This vaccine is being tested in real time on the public which is crazy, I think this is why some of the posters here are reluctant to jump in line to be vaccinated.
If the people being vaccinated are so confident in its effectiveness why such hostility towards those that have a wait and see attitude? they should have nothing to fear.

This is constructive - IMHO.

I have no idea why masks and gathering restrictions still apply to those who are vaccinated, or who have antibodies. The explanation by @Ozarkansas does make sense though. I asked this question in another message forum when people were shaming a local hardware store for not requiring masks and for the employees not wearing masks. My question was "what if the employees have antibodies or are vaccinated?" The response was "But you can get it more than once!" To which I said "So everyone must wear a mask, forever?" My hope is that the gov't approach is just running behind and that at some point the rules will be revised to make more sense.

I'm not sure that I agree the testing in real time is crazy. There were tests done before the rollout, but yes, the information collected from broader vaccinations is akin to more testing. I can understand why someone would be reluctant as a result. I don't, however, understand an alternative. The only one I can think of would probably result in longer lockdowns and longer mask wearing mandates during some longer time period (5 years? 10 years?) for "regular" testing to be considered more thorough. As an aside, my impression is that testing for other drugs is not that much different - and perhaps not even as extensive. (That doesn't make the vaccine approach correct, but it puts in perspective that many of us are probably in "continuous studies" for other medications, but we just don't know about it.)

I personally have no hostility, but I do get tired of some of the posts in which a point that is made is irrelevant, incorrect or just plain angry without any substance.

 

[MattB]

So why are people that have been vaccinated still required to wear masks and avoid gatherings?
The CDC site says they still don't know if the vaccine is 100% effective at protecting you from getting Covid.
This vaccine is being tested in real time on the public which is crazy, I think this is why some of the posters here are reluctant to jump in line to be vaccinated.
If the people being vaccinated are so confident in its effectiveness why such hostility towards those that have a wait and see attitude? they should have nothing to fear.

Why still masks? The substantial clinical studies were to test whether the vaccine would stop the disease, not the virus itself. We've known for a long time that the vaccines are not 100% in stopping the vaccinated from getting COVID (only 94-95%), so it sounds like you are misconstruing the CDC's commentary. There are some studies coming out of Israel that show a substantial reduction in the positivity rate of the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated, which is promising in terms of ditching masks.

Ditto the previous comments on real time testing. That really isn't true.

My personal angst isn't so much about people not getting the vaccine per se, it is more about the ignorance and dishonesty some display in articulating their reasoning. Add to that, some of the same guys who bitched so loudly about the government-imposed restriction of the economy are the same one who are bitching the loudest against the one against employing the one good tool we have to reverse it.

Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic COVID-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

Israel's largest healthcare provider on Sunday reported a 94% drop in symptomatic COVID-19 infections among 600,000 people who received two doses of the Pfizer's (PFE.N) vaccine in the country's biggest study to date.

www.reuters.com

 

[qwerksc]

This virus has been marketed well.

 

[Traveler]

i think the mask rule change is just waiting on data and more people to be vaccinated. The cdc did recently say that people who have received both doses no longer have to quarantine after exposure to someone with Covid, which I assume means there is evidence that asymptomatic spread is greatly minimized in addition to risk of getting sick.

 

[jmez]

The mask rule and distancing isn't changing anytime soon. There is no evidence showing the vaccine prevents infection. The companies making it state that and they reference it in their studies as the number 1 limitation. The study out of Italy does not address it either. They are all addressing disease caused by the virus.

There is a difference between preventing corona virus infection and preventing disease caused by corona virus. You can have coronavirus without having disease, the reverse is not true.

They would need to be doing serial testing on the participants to see if it is preventing infection. Or antibody test the participants. Currently they have done neither.

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[MattB]

The mask rule and distancing isn't changing anytime soon. There is no evidence showing the vaccine prevents infection. The companies making it state that and they reference it in their studies as the number 1 limitation. The study out of Italy does not address it either. They are all addressing disease caused by the virus.

There is a difference between preventing corona virus infection and preventing disease caused by corona virus. You can have coronavirus without having disease, the reverse is not true.

They would need to be doing serial testing on the participants to see if it is preventing infection. Or antibody test the participants. Currently they have done neither.

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While the drug companies are studying that, there is substantial data in Israel that being vaccinated dramatically reduces the positivity rates.

 

[jmez]

The Israel study above doesn't support that.

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[bushcamp]

Serious question - can you elaborate?

it was a general passing comment on a complex issue.
which part specifically did you want me to elaborate on?

 

[bushcamp]

Yeah, really. Maybe we are fortunate to have someone who understands the REAL issue at hand here and is willing to let the rest of us in on it?

what a coincidence, i had a dog name snarky when i was a kid.

 

[fwafwow]

it was a general passing comment on a complex issue.
which part specifically did you want me to elaborate on?

I’m open to any details.

 

[bushcamp]

One thing the pandemic has brought about are some very enlightened people who possess some special knowledge the rest of the population does not have. This knowledge was obtained through many minutes of watching YouTube videos on the subject produced by someone who also had spent several minutes “doing their own research” on YouTube and fringe blogs.

We are fortunate to have them among us to correct us and call us sheep.

there’s no ‘special’ knowledge or ‘enlightenment’ involved with recognizing that there's shit on your boot.
the bigger issues can be had straight from the horses mouth in publicly available literature. no ‘conspiracy theories’ or shoddy youtube videos necessary. btw, when i referred to the herd, i wasn’t calling people sheep,
that’d be rude. i was thinking of buffalo. dignified but easily spooked.

 

[MattB]

The Israel study above doesn't support that.

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That is correct, apologies if I was not clear. It was not a study, just data collected in Israel on positivity rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated groups:

"Maccabi Health Services, one of Israel’s four health maintenance organizations (HMOs), tracked 163,000 Israelis who had received both of the two required doses of the Pfizer vaccine; only 31 of those people tested positive for Covid-19, compared to an unvaccinated sample in which about 6,500 did."

Israel outpaced the world in vaccinations. Now it’s seeing the results.

There’s still a long way to go, but also a reason for hope.

www.vox.com

 

[MattB]

what a coincidence, i had a dog name snarky when i was a kid.

I will have to name my next dog "intentionally obtuse".

 

[qwerksc]

My hat is made from foil, I’ll admit it, I question it all, science from both sides.
We need less information, less internet/screen time and more time doing things we love.

 

[fwafwow]

there’s no ‘special’ knowledge or ‘enlightenment’ involved with recognizing that there's shit on your boot.
the bigger issues can be had straight from the horses mouth in publicly available literature. no ‘conspiracy theories’ or shoddy youtube videos necessary. btw, when i referred to the herd, i wasn’t calling people sheep,
that’d be rude. i was thinking of buffalo. dignified but easily spooked.

Sorry. I am afraid I still don’t know or understand what you are saying.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

You have all the death certificates from the past year to prove your non-sense?

Talk about bullshit...read your own post.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.9 additional conditions or causes per death.

 

[MattB]

The Israel study above doesn't support that.

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That Vox article IMO is badly written, but here is an excerpt from another article with results from the UK:

'A group of researchers in the United Kingdom say they have seen early signs that Pfizer’s vaccines have contributed to a drop in health-care workers testing positive for the virus. Vaccinated health-care workers were 53% less likely to test positive for SARS-CoV-2 12 days after their first dose than were unvaccinated workers, says Tim Spector, a genetic epidemiologist at King’s College London, who presented the preliminary results in an online webinar on 3 February. The analysis was based on about 13,000 vaccinated people and about 33,000 unvaccinated people who reported their results using a mobile-phone app. “This is the first sign in real life, outside trials, what the effect is of a single dose,” he said."'

Vaccines are curbing COVID: Data from Israel show drop in infections

The country is the first to see a direct effect of vaccines working in such a large group of people.

www.nature.com

Here is another which cited a 33% reduction in positivity after 14 days following receiving a single dose.

Israel Vaccine Data Suggests Decrease in Covid-19 Infection Rate After First Dose

Early data from Israel suggests Covid-19 infection rates began to decrease among a group of vaccine recipients two weeks after they received the first shot of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, offering important insights to other countries as they roll out their own campaigns.

www.google.com

 

[MattB]

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.9 additional conditions or causes per death.

Please tell us what you think all that means.

 

[Traveler]

there’s no ‘special’ knowledge or ‘enlightenment’ involved with recognizing that there's shit on your boot.
the bigger issues can be had straight from the horses mouth in publicly available literature. no ‘conspiracy theories’ or shoddy youtube videos necessary. btw, when i referred to the herd, i wasn’t calling people sheep,
that’d be rude. i was thinking of buffalo. dignified but easily spooked.

In other words no specific facts or studies... got it.

 

[qwerksc]

What if, you already had the ‘rona? Do you still get the vaccine?