Rancher charged in attempted stealing of elk horns from helicopter hunters

[Trr15]

It’s a hell of a thing that hunters have to use helicopters to gain access to parcels of landlocked public land. Thousands upon thousands of “public” acres in this state are essentially privately owned due to access limitations.

 

[LongWayAround]

What’s so tough to believe about the gomers?
I’m mean, you’re going through the trouble to helicopter into a spot, just on a whim?
How’d they know this was the spot to charter an aircraft for?

I looked at how to get in there ten years ago, but moved on with my planning.

If I had helicopter money back then, you already would have had heard this story.

 

[LongWayAround]

Your comments are slanderous, broad brushed and narrow minded. Saying "None" or "all" wardens are corrupt and criminal is ridiculous.

If you have a specific point, make it. If your going to just attack and accuse an entire workforce-take it elsewhere.


A factual discussion is welcome, opinions are as well. Blatant, unfounded accusations are not.

Pretty standard from that guy. I'm not sure he's ever been outside his corner of our country.

 

[KenLee]

Your comments are slanderous, broad brushed and narrow minded. Saying "None" or "all" wardens are corrupt and criminal is ridiculous.

If you have a specific point, make it. If your going to just attack and accuse an entire workforce-take it elsewhere.


A factual discussion is welcome, opinions are as well. Blatant, unfounded accusations are not.

"None" referred to the wardens involved in this undercharging, not all wardens...and since I didn't speak, it can't be slander. I'll stand on in my experiences in the Southeastern US that the number is teetering on which side of 50% are corrupt.

 

[spike camp]

That's easy. It's widely know that there are some really good elk up in that area. Many locals here know the outfitter/guides/ family in that area and see the pictures. And the one guy has spent his whole life in this county. It's not rocket science.

Wow
Ok, so these guys do this in a well known spot, and plaster the whole thing on all the socials?

Gonna need an ATC tower in there next year.

 

[Beendare]

Misdemeanor theft seems a little light

No kidding.

I said it in the 2 other threads on the topic- it's grand theft any way you slice it; Hunt cost, travel cost, licenses, etc. The LEO's bent over for this rancher and they should be held accountable too.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

No kidding.

I said it in the 2 other threads on the topic- it's grand theft any way you slice it; Hunt cost, travel cost, licenses, etc. The LEO's bent over for this rancher and they should be held accountable too.

As a stated in this thread earlier, generational ranch family... that means connections and sympathizers. They only slapped the wrist because they had to do something. Should be a felony, no more firearms.

 

[Whaledriver]

I am confused on who is the real "shithead" in this story. Seems pretty cut and dry. Lifetime rancher with thousands of acres takes it upon himself to think the public land is his too?? Just because? Actions always speak louder than words. I think I figured out who the shitheads truly are. Be careful out there.

 

[mt terry d]

When someone is granted a privilege (like welfare or, in this case, grazing public land) long enough they begin to believe it’s their right.

 

[KenLee]

As a stated in this thread earlier, generational ranch family... that means connections and sympathizers. They only slapped the wrist because they had to do something. Should be a felony, no more firearms.

a felony charge would have been interesting. Neighbors on the jury may well have said "no thanks" to a serious charge.

 

[7RemMag]

I am confused on who is the real "shithead" in this story. Seems pretty cut and dry. Lifetime rancher with thousands of acres takes it upon himself to think the public land is his too?? Just because? Actions always speak louder than words. I think I figured out who the shitheads truly are. Be careful out there.

It was amazing to me to read posts on this thread of people that were defending the rancher’s actions or even trying to justify it. As a hunter, I would absolutely be a little bit bummed if someone was in my honey hole. It’s a real bummer. I have had situations similar numerous times over the years…

HOWEVER, I can’t wrap my head around being selfish, jealous, greedy, or spiteful enough to want to do something like this guy did. Regardless of whether legal or not, to me it seems IMMORAL. That fact alone classifies it in the long list of “Do nots” for me. It is saddening that anyone’s morality is that compromised-Although it doesn’t come as a surprise.

 

[StupidLightweight]

It was amazing to me to read posts on this thread of people that were defending the rancher’s actions or even trying to justify it ... Regardless of whether legal or not, to me it seems IMMORAL. That fact alone classifies it in the long list of “Do nots” for me.

I couldn't agree more. My father taught me early on that not all "wrongs" are equal. In law school, he learned the difference between the latin phrases malum prohibitum and malum in se.

Malum prohibitum refers to acts that are illegal solely because they are prohibited by statute or regulation, not because they are inherently immoral or evil. A hunting example would be shooting a big-game animal on the neighboring unit. Legally, this is wrong, but you won't go to hell for it.

Malum in se translates to "wrong in itself" or "evil in itself." It refers to actions that are inherently immoral or unethical, regardless of whether they are prohibited by law, such as murder, rape, or theft. In my mind, a hunting example would be poaching an animal and leaving it to rot.

How does morality apply to this case? Stealing elk antlers to deter hunting on public land falls under malum in se. This is not just legally wrong; it's morally wrong. However, what's worse to me than a rage-filled landowner stealing elk antlers are the anonymous people on the internet who defend said actions.

This is deeply concerning, because at the core of this debate, we have legal versus illegal, right versus wrong, moral versus unethical. To me, the choice is easy.

 

[Scottyboy]

Is this a Rokstock or WKR perhaps? (Clipped from the YouTube vid)

 

[StupidLightweight]

Good eyes. Maybe UM will unveil the Landlok Rokstok!

 

[streamerfish]

Honestly, I've never had the thought to use a helicopter to access hunting area's like that......huh...

Obviously the rancher or whoever was wrong to steal horns/head, or anything else. Clearly. Dude should just leave them alone, assuming the hunters are doing everything on the up and up. And he should be prosecuted.

I don't really see this big argument for it to be felony theft though...Is an elk head worth over $1,000???

As far as the larger landowner v. hunter conversation...It's just unsolvable and ever present. Hunters are A-holes. Land owners are A-holes. People are A-holes. Hence issues will always be there.

 

[BuckSmasher]

As far as the larger landowner v. hunter conversation...It's just unsolvable and ever present. Hunters are A-holes. Land owners are A-holes. People are A-holes. Hence issues will always be there.

Obviously. We are all inclined to evil. Interpersonal conflict isn't going away.

However, I believe it is important not to 'two sides' argue away a clear moral and legal wrong. Whether at home or in public discourse. This rancher dude is getting off way too easy. What he did was clearly wrong and should be recognized and treated as such.

The alternative is a complete lack of justice because of the fact that we are all flawed. The prosecutor could only prosecute speeding and reckless driving if he had never done so. Etc etc.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

I don't really see this big argument for it to be felony theft though...Is an elk head worth over $1,000???

Very easy to figure this out, how much does that landowner charge for a bull Elk hunt? $10k maybe?

 

[HairyScandinavian]

I couldn't agree more. My father taught me early on that not all "wrongs" are equal. In law school, he learned the difference between the latin phrases malum prohibitum and malum in se.

Malum prohibitum refers to acts that are illegal solely because they are prohibited by statute or regulation, not because they are inherently immoral or evil. A hunting example would be shooting a big-game animal on the neighboring unit. Legally, this is wrong, but you won't go to hell for it.

Malum in se translates to "wrong in itself" or "evil in itself." It refers to actions that are inherently immoral or unethical, regardless of whether they are prohibited by law, such as murder, rape, or theft. In my mind, a hunting example would be poaching an animal and leaving it to rot.

How does morality apply to this case? Stealing elk antlers to deter hunting on public land falls under malum in se. This is not just legally wrong; it's morally wrong. However, what's worse to me than a rage-filled landowner stealing elk antlers are the anonymous people on the internet who defend said actions.

This is deeply concerning, because at the core of this debate, we have legal versus illegal, right versus wrong, moral versus unethical. To me, the choice is easy.

Incredibly well stated and couldn't agree more.

 

[streamerfish]

Obviously. We are all inclined to evil. Interpersonal conflict isn't going away.

However, I believe it is important not to 'two sides' argue away a clear moral and legal wrong. Whether at home or in public discourse. This rancher dude is getting off way too easy. What he did was clearly wrong and should be recognized and treated as such.

The alternative is a complete lack of justice because of the fact that we are all flawed. The prosecutor could only prosecute speeding and reckless driving if he had never done so. Etc etc.

I didn't two side the particular incident, I said he should be prosecuted. Very clearly. If the value of what he stole can be proved to be worth enough, then I would be fine with Felony theft.....