Questioning the "gold Standard Drop Test" and the conclusions of "This scope brand does/doesn't hold zero"

[omicron1792]

The most surprising thing about this (and similar) Rokslide thread is that it expresses the honest opinion of a small sampling of North American hunters.

Leopold, arguably, the #1 riflescope manufacturer in the country has to be aware this discussion is ongoing. And one would think they are mobilizing their internal R&D engineering team to identify and resolve the technical issues. Once they’ve done that, they would start a nationwide mobilization of their marketing team to change minds.

Does anybody know if Leupold has even acknowledged that this is an issue?

This has been discussed, but I’m sure they have millions and millions of dollars worth of inventory. So they can’t just come out and say “we fixed a problem, buy the new scopes,” but all the inventory would be devalued.

It’s a tough problem. Lots of companies have to recall and fix these problems (cars, drugs) but it’s not like hunting scopes not holding zero is a threat to anyone.

My guess is they fix it, let most of old stock be sold, then advertise the stink out of it.

 

[jimh406]

Expand on this. How do you think someone FEELS they are losing zero?

More specifically, they think it's the scope. But, there are lots of reasons why a zero moves that don't have anything to do with the scope failing.

 

[Kyguy]

The most surprising thing about this (and similar) Rokslide thread is that it expresses the honest opinion of a small sampling of North American hunters.

Leopold, arguably, the #1 riflescope manufacturer in the country has to be aware this discussion is ongoing. And one would think they are mobilizing their internal R&D engineering team to identify and resolve the technical issues. Once they’ve done that, they would start a nationwide mobilization of their marketing team to change minds.

Does anybody know if Leupold has even acknowledged that this is an issue?

Ah yes but the thing about THIS small sampling is that many of the hunters on here actually shoot all year long and actually test their equipment. I personally know dozens of deer hunters and I can tell you that exactly 4 of them do more than shoot a couple rounds just before deer season. They make a box of 20 rounds last years. They think that I'm completely out of my mind shooting as much as I do, and what I do is a lot less than many on here.

The vast majority of the hunting crowd is the same way, and honestly, they wouldn't know if they're losing zero unless it's way off the mark, Take into account that the average reported shot on a deer east of the Mississippi is 80 yards, and west of it is 180 yards (I personally think it's much closer in both cases) it wouldn't matter to them if it is off an inch. My friend runs a range at this house, and if I had a nickel for every Tom, Dick and Harry that came right before the season started and said "yup close enough", I'd be a rich man.

The big companies are aware of the issues, and on one of Cliff Gray's podcasts, de doesn't mention a name but said that one company acknowledges the issue but isn't going to publicly admit it because it literally makes ALL of their and their vendor's inventory worthless. I think what will slowly end up happening is that some of the companies will make improvements in their top end lines, but it will be a silent improvement.

 

[Kyguy]

More specifically, they think it's the scope. But, there are lots of reasons why a zero moves that don't have anything to do with the scope failing.

This is true and it's been stated many times on here that you have to have a solid system in order to prove that it's the scope. There's enough of us on here that do have solid systems and the same scopes keeps having issues consistently to prove the point.

 

[glock233]

It's simple really. I used Leupold scopes for 15 plus years. I've killed everything that I shot with them so I never really checked zero besides once a year. I KNEW I wasn't losing zero.

But then when I come to rokslide I'm inspired to actually check my zero, which I start doing once a week with 10 shot groups. Not even dropping the rifle, just leaving it in the backseat driving limerock roads. And I noticed that my zero tends to move around. So I FEEL like I'm losing zero. Makes sense right?

Zero VX5. Drive with it in a rattling ATV for 6-8 miles. Zero moves 5” at 100 yards. Is that a feeling?

 

[jimh406]

Zero VX5. Drive with it in a rattling ATV for 6-8 miles. Zero moves 5” at 100 yards. Is that a feeling?

It probably wouldn't be rattling if it's in a proper scabbard or case. ATV riding on rough roads does seem like it could be a severe use case. It doesn't matter though if they don't work for you, find something that does.

I've also heard some say theirs lost zero riding around in a truck. Mine hasn't so far, but I've only driven mine thousands of miles on Montana roads, dirt/gravel, and forest service roads. Maybe I'm lucky, the only thing I can report is what I've seen like everyone else.

 

[omicron1792]

It probably wouldn't be rattling if it's in a proper scabbard or case. ATV riding on rough roads does seem like it could be a severe use case. It doesn't matter though if they don't work for you, find something that does.

I've also heard some say theirs lost zero riding around in a truck. Mine hasn't so far, but I've only driven mine thousands of miles on Montana roads, dirt/gravel, and forest service roads. Maybe I'm lucky, the only thing I can report is what I've seen like everyone else.

Exactly. Your one experience is pretty meaningless. So is mine. So much luck involved.

When you take the experiences of 10s, 100s, 1000s, then you are getting somewhere.

Search leopold here and see how many people have had personal experiences of lost zero. Many just thought that all scopes had to be rezeroed every time you shoot them.

 

[Reed104R]

The most surprising thing about this (and similar) Rokslide thread is that it expresses the honest opinion of a small sampling of North American hunters.

Leopold, arguably, the #1 riflescope manufacturer in the country has to be aware this discussion is ongoing. And one would think they are mobilizing their internal R&D engineering team to identify and resolve the technical issues. Once they’ve done that, they would start a nationwide mobilization of their marketing team to change minds.

Does anybody know if Leupold has even acknowledged that this is an issue?

Your first paragraph may explain why Leupold might not care about the opinions of a bunch of people on a forum. There has to be a reason that Leupold is likely the leading manufacturer of rifle scopes in America. There has to be a reason that as a pre-owned optics dealer, Leupold sells 10 to 1 better than every other brand I sell. There has to be a reason that after more than 50 years of hunting experience, I have never found any rifle scope to be more reliable than a Leupold (I have only used pre-2000 models). I am a retired senior firearms instructor for a large law enforcement agency. I recently asked two of our retired snipers if they ever experienced any zero shifting in their Leupolds (we primarily used Vari-X III models). They both said they had not. There has to be a reason for this. Interestingly, the elder sniper said he sometimes used Redfield scopes in the 70's-early 80's.

 

[jimh406]

Search leopold here and see how many people have had personal experiences of lost zero.

And ... there are posts from people that say they haven't. It would be nice if the industry created a certification process, but I guess there's no money in it.

 

[omicron1792]

And ... there are posts from people that say they haven't. It would be nice if the industry created a certification process, but I guess there's no money in it.

Of course there are some that haven’t. 100% don’t fail. It’s the likelihood the one you will buy will fail. And you don’t know when you buy which one you will get.

If you were betting money and one had 99 percent change of winning, and one had 95 percent. Which would you bet on?

 

[Snowhunter11]

2023 sheep hunt. Three rifles with Leupolds.. vx5, vx3, fixed 6. All new within 5 years prior. All mounted to manufacture specs with good rings. All three knocked off zero. Mine was around 6” if my memory serves me right. carrying a gun in flatlands vs packing a gun in mountains is very different use and abuse. I have killed more animals than cancer with a leupold. I will never carry one in the mountains again. Sighting is 100x easier now as well. My dial does what I tell it! My 2c