Questioning the "gold Standard Drop Test" and the conclusions of "This scope brand does/doesn't hold zero"

I am sure most of have seen the Nightforce video of the fellow at the trade show wacking the scopes on a post and then viewing the reticles on a collimator. It seems one could duplicate this test pretty easy by setting up a rifle in a vise with a bushnell collimator and setting the scope in the bottom half of the rings to look at the reticle between impacts

I wonder how folks ( mostly Form) think this would compare to the drop test? It would seem to me that it would have several advantages. One each impact could be applied consistently to sides of the objective, eye piece and turrets as compared to the drop test. It also would have the advantage of not having to be in the field and range to apply. Of course it doesn't really subsitute for the ride along and extended testing of Forms scope eval.

I've actually used the Bushnell Bore Sighter and did tests of my own like you describe. I didn't just drop scopes and then put them in the rings to see if the reticle shifted. First, because there's a little play when just sitting in the rings that aren't torqued down. Secondly, the scope is part of a system, and if the system fails, then it doesn't matter if the scope didn't.

I used a Rem 700 with an EGW heavy duty rail bonded to the action with Loctite 380 in a Bell and Carlson stock that was TIGHTLY bedded for the full action length. The rings were either SWFA rings, Burris Tactical, or Warne Mountain Tech, and all the rings were torqued to 20 in lbs on the caps and 65 in lbs on the base bolts.

I put the rifle in a cleaning vice. I used a 1lb dead blow hammer and would hit the scope on the top turret, check, the windage, check, the other side, check, etc. By hit, I mean smacking with some force but I wasn't wailing on them. I wasn't destructive testing, just looking for the scope reticle to shift.

I had a couple of VX Freedom 3-9 non CDS, a couple of VX3HD CDS (1.5-5, 2.5-8, 3.5-10), a couple of Huron 3-9, an SHV 3-10, a couple of Burris Fullfield II's 3-9, a new Burris Fullfield 2-8, a Burris Fullfield E1 3-9, three Burris Droptine 3-9, a 2021 Bushnell Banner 3-9, a couple of Bushnell R3 3-9, three Bushnell 4500x 2.5-10, a Bushnell Sharpshooter 4-12, three Vortex Viper HS 2.5-10, a couple of Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44, a couple of Redfield Revenge 3-9, couple of Nikon Omega 3-9. Some of these were purchased new, some used, so there's that caveat as well.

You also have to realize that each block in the grid on the Bushnell collimator represents 4" at 100 yards, if I remember correctly. So just because it looks good on the collimator doesn't mean that there wasn't a shift in actual group if you were shooting on paper.

Which scopes passed with no detectable shift on the collimator?
Burris Fullfield II 3-9, both scopes
Burris Droptine-- 2 passed
SHV 3-10
Huron 3-9, one
Bushnell 4500x- all three
Bushnell Sharpshooter
Vortex Viper 2.5-10-- 2 passed
Vortex Viper 6.5-20-- 2 passed

Which scopes had slight shifts on the collimator?
Burris Fullfield 2-8
Burris Droptine 3-9, one
Bushnell Banner 3-9
Huron 3-9, one
Vortex Viper HS 2.5-10, one
Burris Fullfield E1.

Which scopes shifted dramatically on the collimator?
Leupold Freedom
Leupold VX3HD CDS (these were the most dramatic)
Vortex Viper 6.5-20
Redfield Revenge
Bushnell R3
Nikon Omega

The Leupold CDS scopes shifted dramatically just from the hammer on the elevation dial. The capped Freedom's were better but not great. They also shifted windage regardless of which side I smacked. Same with the Bushnell R3, Nikon Omega and Redfield Revenge. The Viper 6.5-20 shifted when smacked on the parallax knob.

I did go further with a few of the scopes, namely one of the Viper HS 2.5-10, one of the Bushnell 4500x, a Viper 6.5-20, one Fullfield 3-9, and one Droptine 3-9, one Huron, and the SHV. I did some drop tests using the same rifle, but it was indoor as I did all this during a cold snap. I started out in the garage using a $30 Midway soft case that's got 2" thick foam padding. I put the rifle in the case and dropped it from HEAD height on the concrete floor, on both sides. Then I also threw it across the garage like someone might do when tossing it in a truck bed or similar. I'd check after each drop/throw. Surprisingly (or maybe not?), they all did fine.

Then I decided that I was going to get rough until something broke or I decided it was enough. LOL. On the same rifle, I took one of the Viper 2.5-10 opened the case and laid it flat on the concrete and dropped it from HEAD height on the open case, both sides and then on the elevation. Both sides went fine, no noticeable shift.... when I dropped it on the elevation dial, I knew something happened, as I heard metal hit concrete. Ends up that the elevation cap CUT through the soft case completely, the nylon liner, the foam, AND the Cordura outside. There was a perfectly circular ring through the case and the cap was bent in. Amazingly, it DID NOT shift. (Side note, I sent that one in to Vortex and it came back with flying colors and a new cap.)

After that, I decided that I'd do it inside on my carpeted bedroom floor instead and just used a couple blankets on the floor. I took one of the Bushnell 4500x scopes and just started dropping it repeatedly and checking after each drop. It never showed any shift on the Bushnell collimator and eventually the mag ring started binding and locked up. I must have dropped that that thing 30 times. I couldn't believe it.

The same thing happened with the Burris Droptine 3-9, but it didn't take as near as many drops before the mag ring locked up completely.

Bushnell and Burris both replaced the scopes. Unfortunately for me, the Bushnell 4500x is discontinued so it was replaced with an R5 3-9, which was promptly sold as I had no interest in it.

Last month, I did something different with one of the Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44. I just put the rifle on the floor and dropped a rubber coated 5lb weight on it and the rifle repeatedly, on both sides, to simulate stuff getting dropped on the rifle. It didn't show any shifts from that, and the parallax knob actually cut through the rubber and got nicked from the steel weight inside. This rifle I did shoot after that, though it was maybe 6 weeks later. The zero was fine at 100 and I put 20 or 30 rounds through it at 100, right on the money. I moved out to 200 and adjusted, and then 4 shots later the POI suddenly shifted 3" low and 2" right and stayed there for 20 rounds. After it shifted, I checked everything and it was all right and tight. So there's THAT.... I will say that this rifle ISN'T bedded yet. That scope is getting pulled and sent to Vortex so they can tell me that they think the ring torque wasn't right, if they don't find anything wrong with it. LMAO.

What did I decide from all of these shenanigans? It seems that for under $600, 2nd focal plane variable scopes with no parallax adjustment from Trijicon, Burris (depending on model), Bushnell (depending on model) offer the best chance of getting reliability and bang for the buck. I think the inner simplicity of these style scopes contributes to this (as compared to high mag FFP scopes). Looking at the drop tests on here, the results are similar. I wish I'd tested the couple of Vortex Crossfire HD's that I had a for a bit, just to see how they'd fare. Same with a couple of Crimson Trace scopes I had before joining RS. When there's so many firsthand accounts of what seems to be solid and what seems to have issues, it helps to narrow decisions. If you need a FFP high magnification hunting scope, there's enough firsthand accounts of what's consistently working that those should be the first consideration. I'm talking about for hunting.... not PRS, F-Class, varmint shooting, etc. Between doing this "testing" and reading other's experiences, it's also showed me that ANY scope CAN fail at ANY time, regardless of brand.

I'll also qualify this by saying I'm an eastern hunter. I'm not shooting the long distances on game that many on here do. What I use and what works for me may not be what you need. You should use what gives you confidence in your typical situation.

None of this really replaces dropping your rifle system and then shooting it to see results. The "what if's?" always come into play in our minds, and I find it interesting that they are different for different people. So many want to say that the drop tests are ridiculous.... "I'd never drop my rifle!"... but what if you do? Many of these same people haven't ever taken a shot over 300 yards on an animal and probably never will, but they're trying to put together 500, 600, 700 yard hunting systems because "what if I do get shot at that range"? and that's perfectly reasonable in their mind. The statistical chance of your rifle system getting dropped/handled rough/fallen on resulting in scope issues is MUCH higher than the chance of that long range shot, all things considered. I'm not hunting long range, but I want to know how the system and scope handle such things.

I also tell people to buy equipment for what you actually do 90% of the time, not for the stuff you want to do 10% of the time. But that's another argument for a different day. Ha!
 
First, buy what holds up to your uses and/or how you mount your scopes. I mention mounting after watching/reading all of the ways you can mount a scope/rings/base wrong.

However, I've done a poll where I asked if their Leupold held zero or not. Of course, you can say those people were all lucky or just didn't notice, but 62% of people said theirs does.

I'm not disputing what people see when they have scopes fail, but it seems like people who have scopes fail have a lot of brands failing. Likewise, those who don't have them fail seem to be able to use any brand.

In any case, there is no industry standard test and the sample size of drop tests is tiny. I just wonder what else is going on to create the failures given that the same brand/model that fails works in many cases.
 

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First, buy what holds up to your uses and/or how you mount your scopes. I mention mounting after watching/reading all of the ways you can mount a scope/rings/base wrong.

However, I've done a poll where I asked if their Leupold held zero or not. Of course, you can say those people were all lucky or just didn't notice, but 62% of people said theirs does.

I'm not disputing what people see when they have scopes fail, but it seems like people who have scopes fail have a lot of brands failing. Likewise, those who don't have them fail seem to be able to use any brand.

In any case, there is no industry standard test and the sample size of drop tests is tiny. I just wonder what else is going on to create the failures given that the same brand/model that fails works in many cases.
62% is an awful number.

No one disputes that some of them hold zero. The question when buying a new scope is what are my odds of this new scope holding zero.

62%?! That is awful.
 
However, I've done a poll where I asked if their Leupold held zero or not. Of course, you can say those people were all lucky or just didn't notice, but 62% of people said theirs does.

The issue with that is the vast majority of hunters don’t actually have their rifle zeroed. Shooting 1-3 rounds, adjusting, and then putting 1-3 in the bullseye isn’t zeroed. And IME, thats the standard “zeroing” practice. It works because the margin of error is fine for the distances most guys actually shoot animals at. A 1-2 MOA zeroing error probably wont cost you an elk inside of 250 yards. I only started to notice my VX3 failing to hold zero when I started zeroing off at least a 10 round group, and then verifying with another 10 plus rounds after a few months.
 
First, buy what holds up to your uses and/or how you mount your scopes. I mention mounting after watching/reading all of the ways you can mount a scope/rings/base wrong.

However, I've done a poll where I asked if their Leupold held zero or not. Of course, you can say those people were all lucky or just didn't notice, but 62% of people said theirs does.

I'm not disputing what people see when they have scopes fail, but it seems like people who have scopes fail have a lot of brands failing. Likewise, those who don't have them fail seem to be able to use any brand.

In any case, there is no industry standard test and the sample size of drop tests is tiny. I just wonder what else is going on to create the failures given that the same brand/model that fails works in many cases.
I would encourage you to spend some time at a public range, a few weeks before hunting season. You will see those 62%ers there "sighting in". When they pack up and leave, none of them will have bullet holes in the aim point on their target. So how can you say your scope never loses zero, when it never was zeroed?
 
First, buy what holds up to your uses and/or how you mount your scopes. I mention mounting after watching/reading all of the ways you can mount a scope/rings/base wrong.

However, I've done a poll where I asked if their Leupold held zero or not. Of course, you can say those people were all lucky or just didn't notice, but 62% of people said theirs does.

I'm not disputing what people see when they have scopes fail, but it seems like people who have scopes fail have a lot of brands failing. Likewise, those who don't have them fail seem to be able to use any brand.

In any case, there is no industry standard test and the sample size of drop tests is tiny. I just wonder what else is going on to create the failures given that the same brand/model that fails works in many cases.
This post is the PERFECT example of why the industry isn't improving. 62% is acceptable to you? Really? Would you consider a rifle that functions correctly 62% of the time acceptable? NO. Would you consider ammunition that fires 62% of the time acceptable? NO. So why is a scope that's reliable 62% of the time acceptable?

Apply that to any consumer product....

brakes that work 62% of the time are acceptable?

A car that starts 62% of the time is acceptable?

A phone that works 62% of the time is acceptable?

The answer to all of these is NO.
 
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