Question for the 301 Level Deer Hunters From a 201 Guy

[id_jon]

I've heard somebody say something to the effect of....

If you want to consistently kill big deer, you may never go elk (or other species) hunting again.

They are just that dedicated to hunting mule deer.

I think Robby also said that if you want to kill a big deer, you might have to accept not killing a deer at all some years.

 

[willfrye027]

Comment from a 201 deer guy who aspires to be 301 (but knows it probably wont happen).

I don’t live close enough to big deer country, and I am not willing to sacrifice some of my other outdoor hobbies/animals to be 301 level. I also love to eat venison and cow elk too much.

I’ve settled on having one hunt per year where a big buck is possible. Draw, OTC, archery..whatever it takes. I’ll usually scout a week for that tag in one trip, and spend 7-10 days actually hunting it.

My other time gets spent chasing California forkies, the occasional elk, and family/deer camp style hunts.

If I draw a good tag then I’ll just focus on that for the season.

Strikes a good balance for me, I just have to lower the “standard” for what a big deer is. If I even see a monster while scouting or hunting, that is a success for me. Killing one is the goal, but not realistic for me year after year. It just takes more time than I have or am willing to give.

Oh and I’ll pay for scouting/semi guided/landowner when possible and work extra shifts to make it happen!

 

[robby denning]

I think Robby also said that if you want to kill a big deer, you might have to accept not killing a deer at all some years.

definitely! I've only killed 3 in last 6 seasons.

 

[Dioni A]

I think Robby also said that if you want to kill a big deer, you might have to accept not killing a deer at all some years.

Lowering standards definitely ups your odds! I haven't figured out how to hold out for a giant if I didn't have him found before season.

 

[CorbLand]

I think Robby also said that if you want to kill a big deer, you might have to accept not killing a deer at all some years.

Hey, that’s the part I am actually good at.

 

[Justin_Tree]

Man, what a great thread.

I find myself in the same boat as the OP and there is a lot of great information from great buck hunters.

 

[Travis Hobbs]

Some really good nuggets in these responses so far. I really appreciate you guys all giving your 2 cents. I’m picking up on a common thread from most of you, and that’s time. Time in the field during the hunt, and number of times you can go back to the unit year after year.

Another question for all of you, but especially @Travis Hobbs (I know you’ve owned and sold your own business). I’m at a time of my life where there me is a very valuable commodity (starting a family, and recently started a business that I’d like to grow). How do/ did you balance your hunting time in your 20s? My wife is truly a very supportive wife for not growing up in a hunting family. It does get hard on her towards the end of season as I’m trying to swing a weekend trip here and there after working 65 hours that week. Is it just part of the game, and slowly gets better, or do you guys have anything that you did that helped balance home, work and hunting life?

“TIME” is definitely the most valuable thing in every aspect of life. Balancing it never ends I have learned I’m still trying to balance it all but I know looking back, I’ve learned some things as I approach 40 years old.

Business, especially the building/growing process, while trying to crush hunting/scouting sucked. It’s all about time management. Add trying to be a good husband, it wasn’t easy. I could bore you with a lot of details for hours, maybe I’ll do a podcast for Rokslide on it as I get the question a lot.

I know I owe my wife everything, she has never once asked me to slow down or stay home, usually encouraged me to go as she knew what it meant to me. I use to spend 90+ days between hunting and scouting a year and it really does strain every tiny bit of relationships. I know I also lost a lot of money hunting like I did, but my memories are worth millions.

When juggling it all, time management was all I felt like I was doing, I still do. I have always made sure though I took care of her, work and responsibilities, but made damn sure I made time to hunt. Sleepless nights and overtime hours were all I knew for a lot of years. If it was light outside I was working or hunting.

One thing I do know, that made a big difference and worked for “us” on the personal end, was making scouting and hunting FUN. My wife didn’t hunt when we met, and i think she thought I was nuts for a loooong time. But she had some interest, and after starting her nice and easy, doing WARM action packed hunts (antelope or bird hunting is the greatest way imo), the wife grew a passion and started to really understand hunting and the rewards of it. Every year, I would try to build and improve on her skills every year, learning archery, long range shooting, glassing, and before long, she was addicted to the pursuit of getting better.

Recently, involving my new born daughter in everything we do helped us stay out there. A lot of woman quit after kids and I know why now . The kid thing, damn…..It’s a challenge at times, but I wouldn’t trade it. My wife and I have really kept at hunting, and had my daughter from the time she was basically a new born on a lot of pretty serious hunting trips. She has been by my side from scouting, to hunting, camping in a tent and even killing mountain lions and bear hunting before her first birthday….the kid is truly happy outdoors. It’s what she knows.

This season was so cool and surreal for me. I got to have my daughter right by my side, while I watched her momma shoot her 5th bull elk and one of her best bulls to date. My little girl was there for every bit of it….hanging with me, grandpa and her mom smiling all the way. She can’t get enough of sticks, birds, the moon and stars, flowers, trees you name it. It’s how I think it was supposed to be.

I think a lot of guys try throwing their wives/kids into some extreme, rugged, “badass” type hunt and expect them to enjoy it…I don’t think that “all in” bullshit right out of the gate ever works.

When my girls are with me it’s an entirely different process as all I’m trying to accomplish is making sure they enjoy themselves. I have to remind myself any time spent in deer country is precious. Even if I’m only getting to glass for 3 hours and the rest of my day consists of picking flowers, watching birds and chasing grasshoppers with a 1 year old. It’s better than sitting at home on the sidelines

Good luck with the business man, dump everything you have into life, you’ll get out of it what you put in.

Great thread and some great input!

 

[robby denning]

Lowering standards definitely ups your odds! I haven't figured out how to hold out for a giant if I didn't have him found before season.

With the last several bad winters, and draw odds getting worse, I’ve had to lower my standards

 

[jpmulk]

This is a good and interesting thread. I’ve had the desire to become a serious mule deer hunter. But currently, im not willing to sacrifice what needs to be sacrificed to make that happen. Elk fill my freezer and I like hunting with family who prefer elk. I also am not willing to sacrifice more family time. I’m learning being a big mule deer hunter takes sacrifice. Im not there yet.

 

[robby denning]

... She can’t get enough of sticks, birds, the moon and stars, flowers, trees you name it. It’s how I think it was supposed to be.

View attachment 638716

 

[sbaker0029]

@elk_hntr , I'll have to say this is one of the most solid fng post that I've seen. Great questions and awesome responses.

I would definitely be interested in a podcast with Travis and hear what all he has to say.

Thanks for this thread!

 

[robby denning]

@elk_hntr , I'll have to say this is one of the most solid fng post that I've seen. Great questions and awesome responses.

I would definitely be interested in a podcast with Travis and hear what all he has to say.

Thanks for this thread!

There are a bunch of episodes on the Rokcast with Travis already.

 

[Fatcamp]

If you live in the west I would find a unit that meets the above criteria but ALSO has something that will attract your family to it during the summer for summer scouting. Think camping for some reason. Biking, rafting, hiking, mushroom foraging, something to get you out there during the times outside of hunting season.

Still taking a ton of notes over here...

My family really enjoys rockhounding.

 

[sbaker0029]

@robby denning
I will definitely have to search for those. I listened to the how to apply and scouting episodes a while back, great info in both.

Guess better phrasing would be that I'm interested in hearing the boring details he mentioned about balancing life, hunting, and a business. Always like to hear the fine points about someone's journey.

This place and the podcast are absolute goldmine of knowledge and I really appreciate what you guys have done and continue to do. Thank you.

 

[robby denning]

@robby denning
...

Guess better phrasing would be that I'm interested in hearing the boring details he mentioned about balancing life, hunting, and a business. Always like to hear the fine points about someone's journey.

...

OK! understood brother. Thanks for the clarify.

 

[elk_hntr]

“TIME” is definitely the most valuable thing in every aspect of life. Balancing it never ends I have learned I’m still trying to balance it all but I know looking back, I’ve learned some things as I approach 40 years old.

Business, especially the building/growing process, while trying to crush hunting/scouting sucked. It’s all about time management. Add trying to be a good husband, it wasn’t easy. I could bore you with a lot of details for hours, maybe I’ll do a podcast for Rokslide on it as I get the question a lot.

I know I owe my wife everything, she has never once asked me to slow down or stay home, usually encouraged me to go as she knew what it meant to me. I use to spend 90+ days between hunting and scouting a year and it really does strain every tiny bit of relationships. I know I also lost a lot of money hunting like I did, but my memories are worth millions.

When juggling it all, time management was all I felt like I was doing, I still do. I have always made sure though I took care of her, work and responsibilities, but made damn sure I made time to hunt. Sleepless nights and overtime hours were all I knew for a lot of years. If it was light outside I was working or hunting.

One thing I do know, that made a big difference and worked for “us” on the personal end, was making scouting and hunting FUN. My wife didn’t hunt when we met, and i think she thought I was nuts for a loooong time. But she had some interest, and after starting her nice and easy, doing WARM action packed hunts (antelope or bird hunting is the greatest way imo), the wife grew a passion and started to really understand hunting and the rewards of it. Every year, I would try to build and improve on her skills every year, learning archery, long range shooting, glassing, and before long, she was addicted to the pursuit of getting better.

Recently, involving my new born daughter in everything we do helped us stay out there. A lot of woman quit after kids and I know why now . The kid thing, damn…..It’s a challenge at times, but I wouldn’t trade it. My wife and I have really kept at hunting, and had my daughter from the time she was basically a new born on a lot of pretty serious hunting trips. She has been by my side from scouting, to hunting, camping in a tent and even killing mountain lions and bear hunting before her first birthday….the kid is truly happy outdoors. It’s what she knows.

This season was so cool and surreal for me. I got to have my daughter right by my side, while I watched her momma shoot her 5th bull elk and one of her best bulls to date. My little girl was there for every bit of it….hanging with me, grandpa and her mom smiling all the way. She can’t get enough of sticks, birds, the moon and stars, flowers, trees you name it. It’s how I think it was supposed to be.

I think a lot of guys try throwing their wives/kids into some extreme, rugged, “badass” type hunt and expect them to enjoy it…I don’t think that “all in” bullshit right out of the gate ever works.

When my girls are with me it’s an entirely different process as all I’m trying to accomplish is making sure they enjoy themselves. I have to remind myself any time spent in deer country is precious. Even if I’m only getting to glass for 3 hours and the rest of my day consists of picking flowers, watching birds and chasing grasshoppers with a 1 year old. It’s better than sitting at home on the sidelines

Good luck with the business man, dump everything you have into life, you’ll get out of it what you put in.

Great thread and some great input!

View attachment 638715

View attachment 638716

Great response! I just had my second last week. With my first, I’ve involved him in almost everything hunting related I can. Mom has no interest, and that’s okay. She enjoys the outdoors in other ways, so I can still do some scouting while spending time with them.

On the business end, you mentioned losing money to hunt. Did you shut down operations while you were gone? Or are you just saying nothing ever runs like when you’re there (I’ve experienced that over and over)? Did that ever get better? And was it because of certain systems you implemented, or hiring certain people with specific strengths?

Beautiful family! And thank you so much for taking the time to respond to this thread!

 

[elk_hntr]

There are a bunch of episodes on the Rokcast with Travis already.

And they’re always so informative!! I love hearing you and Travis get into deer and what you’ve learned about them recently, hunting related or biologically.

 

[Travis Hobbs]

Great response! I just had my second last week. With my first, I’ve involved him in almost everything hunting related I can. Mom has no interest, and that’s okay. She enjoys the outdoors in other ways, so I can still do some scouting while spending time with them.

On the business end, you mentioned losing money to hunt. Did you shut down operations while you were gone? Or are you just saying nothing ever runs like when you’re there (I’ve experienced that over and over)? Did that ever get better? And was it because of certain systems you implemented, or hiring certain people with specific strengths?

Beautiful family! And thank you so much for taking the time to respond to this thread!

On the business end it was a mixture of both. I ran both a gravel pit/mine and delivery company. So we were involved in the manufacturing, sales and some of the delivery of product.

I started the business to be able to hunt “whenever I wanted” boy was I wrong….. When I was gone hunting, It seemed like everything that could go wrong, would go wrong.

Sure we would lose sales, but that was just some of it…sSome of the contractors we supplied only wanted to deal with me. My guys were great, but contractors get use to dealing with one person, having it done a certain way so to speak. Not all of them, but it had effect on the bottom line and money made. Most of the time the biz got through fine without me there day to day in fall, but I dealt with a lot of stress, just always trying to go above and beyond to build, earn and secure their business. It’s growing pains of small biz.

I also managed deliveries of product to the people/contractors buying direct from us, wanting us to deliver product. I ran delivery operations and scheduling with gravel. Construction schedules always get messed up, weather and other delay problems never end in construction. It’s always a juggling act keeping your word but keeping that schedule as full as you can to maximize profits.

Then we had material testing issues for government jobs. They run a very tight spec for good reason. One change in a geological rock formation we were mining can affect the end product. We would mine for 6 months and have no issue, fall would come and sure enough, we are changing manufacturing process to continue to hit specs.

I had great employees that basically ran my gravel manufacturing operation, but for whatever reason, when I was gone, the worst things seemed to happen. It’s just how it works Seriously costly breakdowns, happened what seemed like every time when I was gone. A rock crusher is a different animal, it’s a constant struggle to keep it running and trying to decide when to replace parts and do serious maintenance that could cost weeks of production, hard for me to make when I was there staring at the problem, it’s even worse when you are on top of a mountain trying to hunt deer and making big business decisions.

Later in the years I made the decision to go to contract crushing hoping to ease stress and make “more time” produce more and grow like hell, and it brought an entirely new set of problems.

Small business is tough. So much riding on decisions you make, especially as business grows. In the industry we were in, it was constant risk vs reward to the extreme. Always just one major breakdown from losing a years profit or completely running out of product.

I think the other issue a small business face, is no one cares like you do about the success of the business. Good employees have a lot riding on it, but an owner has everything. I know for me I risked everything I owned, years of savings, my complete net worth to start the company. It is a motivator to succeed like nothing else. But no one can be perfect and I learned hard decisions.

As you know, business failure all boils down to decisions made, many times it’s small decisions made under stress, that compound…… sometimes it’s big decisions with a lot of $ on the line. Right or wrong, the decisions have consequences…. Success or Failure.

Selling a business is another really tough decision. For me, I made the decision to sell to spend time with my daughter and hunt more. It will probably cost me a pile of money the way we were growing, maybe not though, time will tell. I still own the property the mine is on. And I know my stress level is waaaaay down and I have more me time. More time to hunt, and more importantly spend with my daughter. I’m happy it’s worked out how it has.

You’ll get whatever you put into it I believe. Just never forget about the truly important things in life and the meaning of success isn’t always money in the bank.

 

[elk_hntr]

On the business end it was a mixture of both. I ran both a gravel pit/mine and delivery company. So we were involved in the manufacturing, sales and some of the delivery of product.

I started the business to be able to hunt “whenever I wanted” boy was I wrong….. When I was gone hunting, It seemed like everything that could go wrong, would go wrong.

Sure we would lose sales, but that was just some of it…sSome of the contractors we supplied only wanted to deal with me. My guys were great, but contractors get use to dealing with one person, having it done a certain way so to speak. Not all of them, but it had effect on the bottom line and money made. Most of the time the biz got through fine without me there day to day in fall, but I dealt with a lot of stress, just always trying to go above and beyond to build, earn and secure their business. It’s growing pains of small biz.

I also managed deliveries of product to the people/contractors buying direct from us, wanting us to deliver product. I ran delivery operations and scheduling with gravel. Construction schedules always get messed up, weather and other delay problems never end in construction. It’s always a juggling act keeping your word but keeping that schedule as full as you can to maximize profits.

Then we had material testing issues for government jobs. They run a very tight spec for good reason. One change in a geological rock formation we were mining can affect the end product. We would mine for 6 months and have no issue, fall would come and sure enough, we are changing manufacturing process to continue to hit specs.

I had great employees that basically ran my gravel manufacturing operation, but for whatever reason, when I was gone, the worst things seemed to happen. It’s just how it works Seriously costly breakdowns, happened what seemed like every time when I was gone. A rock crusher is a different animal, it’s a constant struggle to keep it running and trying to decide when to replace parts and do serious maintenance that could cost weeks of production, hard for me to make when I was there staring at the problem, it’s even worse when you are on top of a mountain trying to hunt deer and making big business decisions.

Later in the years I made the decision to go to contract crushing hoping to ease stress and make “more time” produce more and grow like hell, and it brought an entirely new set of problems.

Small business is tough. So much riding on decisions you make, especially as business grows. In the industry we were in, it was constant risk vs reward to the extreme. Always just one major breakdown from losing a years profit or completely running out of product.

I think the other issue a small business face, is no one cares like you do about the success of the business. Good employees have a lot riding on it, but an owner has everything. I know for me I risked everything I owned, years of savings, my complete net worth to start the company. It is a motivator to succeed like nothing else. But no one can be perfect and I learned hard decisions.

As you know, business failure all boils down to decisions made, many times it’s small decisions made under stress, that compound…… sometimes it’s big decisions with a lot of $ on the line. Right or wrong, the decisions have consequences…. Success or Failure.

Selling a business is another really tough decision. For me, I made the decision to sell to spend time with my daughter and hunt more. It will probably cost me a pile of money the way we were growing, maybe not though, time will tell. I still own the property the mine is on. And I know my stress level is waaaaay down and I have more me time. More time to hunt, and more importantly spend with my daughter. I’m happy it’s worked out how it has.

You’ll get whatever you put into it I believe. Just never forget about the truly important things in life and the meaning of success isn’t always money in the bank.

I grew up always wanting to own my own company, so I could do what I want when I want to….. You know how that goes. Now I can do what I want when I want with A LOT of strings attached! Haha.

I hope I can make sound business decisions so that it continues to grow and give me freedom.

Looks and sounds like your business journey is continuing to evolve and shift exactly “what” you do to be as efficient as you can be with finances and time. A lot like the dream I pursue.

Thanks again Travis! You better get ahold of Robby’s publisher and get all these answers compiled for your first novel! I really appreciate the time and effort you’ve taken to answer my questions!

 

[Jbenson]

it always has been. Even in the 2nd "good old days" of the 1980s, my family hardly killed any big bucks.

If you kill the nice ones, they don't turn in to big ones!