Question for the 301 Level Deer Hunters From a 201 Guy

[Schoolhousegrizz]

I have not killed as many big deer as @robby denning and @Travis Hobbs , but I have done pretty good for me. Still have a lot more I want to do. I will share some of my thoughts on here with you.

The keep hammering mentality was not for me and will burn you out and cause you to miss valuable time with your family. Yes you need to hit it hard but you also need to know when to back off a little for your own good. Burning out is no fun at all. I had to stay away from social media. The comparison can lead to nothing but misery and inadequacy. Do it for yourself and for no other reason. You don't have to prove anything to anybody. If you do it for the wrong reasons, the passion, beauty and the love for it can fade away until it becomes something ugly.

Take your family with you on summer scouting trips when you can. The best thing I have ever did was invite my wife to hunt with me. She is now my number one hunting partner. She's not afraid to backpack in or do whatever. She is always optimistic which is much more important than having someone along that can glass really well. The best thing is you don't have to worry about a buddy shooting a buck out from underneath you .

Also I don't hunt small game. Whenever I go fishing or looking for sheds my family comes with me. I pretty much hunt deer and Bear consistently with a few other things sprinkled in over the years. That keeps me from burning out and I feel like I still have plenty of adventure.

Also, I've killed deer with a bow and muzzleloader and a rifle. With that being said, I find myself hunting more and more with a rifle just because it's a takes so much time to get it done with archery equipment, another thing that burnt me out. I don't have the best personality for archery hunting. I'm shooting the bow so much that I wear out my string right before the hunt then I've got to get the bow all set up with the new string and it starts all over. I had to make a rule I can't start shooting my bow until July or I will overdo it, but like I said I've gravitated more towards rifle hunting now.

I hope some of this helps, good luck to you!

 

[Swamp Fox]

“TIME” is definitely the most valuable thing in every aspect of life. Balancing it never ends I have learned I’m still trying to balance it all but I know looking back, I’ve learned some things as I approach 40 years old.

Business, especially the building/growing process, while trying to crush hunting/scouting sucked. It’s all about time management. Add trying to be a good husband, it wasn’t easy. I could bore you with a lot of details for hours, maybe I’ll do a podcast for Rokslide on it as I get the question a lot.

I know I owe my wife everything, she has never once asked me to slow down or stay home, usually encouraged me to go as she knew what it meant to me. I use to spend 90+ days between hunting and scouting a year and it really does strain every tiny bit of relationships. I know I also lost a lot of money hunting like I did, but my memories are worth millions.

When juggling it all, time management was all I felt like I was doing, I still do. I have always made sure though I took care of her, work and responsibilities, but made damn sure I made time to hunt. Sleepless nights and overtime hours were all I knew for a lot of years. If it was light outside I was working or hunting.

One thing I do know, that made a big difference and worked for “us” on the personal end, was making scouting and hunting FUN. My wife didn’t hunt when we met, and i think she thought I was nuts for a loooong time. But she had some interest, and after starting her nice and easy, doing WARM action packed hunts (antelope or bird hunting is the greatest way imo), the wife grew a passion and started to really understand hunting and the rewards of it. Every year, I would try to build and improve on her skills every year, learning archery, long range shooting, glassing, and before long, she was addicted to the pursuit of getting better.

Recently, involving my new born daughter in everything we do helped us stay out there. A lot of woman quit after kids and I know why now . The kid thing, damn…..It’s a challenge at times, but I wouldn’t trade it. My wife and I have really kept at hunting, and had my daughter from the time she was basically a new born on a lot of pretty serious hunting trips. She has been by my side from scouting, to hunting, camping in a tent and even killing mountain lions and bear hunting before her first birthday….the kid is truly happy outdoors. It’s what she knows.

This season was so cool and surreal for me. I got to have my daughter right by my side, while I watched her momma shoot her 5th bull elk and one of her best bulls to date. My little girl was there for every bit of it….hanging with me, grandpa and her mom smiling all the way. She can’t get enough of sticks, birds, the moon and stars, flowers, trees you name it. It’s how I think it was supposed to be.

I think a lot of guys try throwing their wives/kids into some extreme, rugged, “badass” type hunt and expect them to enjoy it…I don’t think that “all in” bullshit right out of the gate ever works.

When my girls are with me it’s an entirely different process as all I’m trying to accomplish is making sure they enjoy themselves. I have to remind myself any time spent in deer country is precious. Even if I’m only getting to glass for 3 hours and the rest of my day consists of picking flowers, watching birds and chasing grasshoppers with a 1 year old. It’s better than sitting at home on the sidelines

Good luck with the business man, dump everything you have into life, you’ll get out of it what you put in.

Great thread and some great input!

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Post of the year right there ...

 

[Andyram_18]

I have no business giving comment on going from 201-301. this last season I have gone from 101-150! Stay hungry and learn from these guys who are up there. I closed my season with my first stalk on a truly big buck and it was a huge victory. I would write down the aspects of big buck hunting down that you aren’t good at, and focus on building those skills. If you improve 1% each time, eventually you’ll get to 301.

 

[robby denning]

... I would write down the aspects of big buck hunting down that you aren’t good at, and focus on building those skills…

Great advice

 

[Dioni A]

I have no business giving comment on going from 201-301. this last season I have gone from 101-150! Stay hungry and learn from these guys who are up there. I closed my season with my first stalk on a truly big buck and it was a huge victory. I would write down the aspects of big buck hunting down that you aren’t good at, and focus on building those skills. If you improve 1% each time, eventually you’ll get to 301.

Even finding a truly big buck is a huge accomplishment. I count my year as a win if I can put eyes on a truly mature buck in a general unit. You've got the right attitude about it. It's a slow process that feels impossible at times then one day something clicks and it starts to get easier.

 

[Mish-pop]

This is a truly great thread I have enjoyed reading! My situation is a little different in that I hunt a private ranch in my home state every year for muley. Yes it costs me but still would be cheaper than out of state hunt for a muley. The bucks that I hunt rarely ever get 'monsters or 'big' size just because the genetics. Dont get me wrong, they are still very nice bucks and I am so blessed that my dad found this ranch 25 years ago. For me the increased challenge and increased enjoyment came from when I wanted to start archery hunting. I want to shoot the same class of deer I was shooting with rifle but now with a bow. I started taking longer trips to the ranch to give myself a better opportunity. I have now learned so much more about deer behavior just by watching the deer due to more days afield and easier to be out all day when I go earlier in year when it's warmer. (Archery hunting has made me a much better overall hunter in so many ways.) TIME in the field is so important and I also started taking notes. I know the ranch very well after hunting it myself for 15 years but taking notes and jotting things on a map helps with the recall of information from year to year. I am also blessed to have an amazing spouse that understands my passion and gives me the freedom to take plenty of time for hunting.

One other thing, I'm kinda the opposite of this thread as I have hunted mule deer since I was young but just harvested my first elk a couple weeks ago. It was an absolute blast and I really want to get out and do it again! I don't even care if someone else has the license and I can just tag along. Sorry if I got off topic there a little but again the time in the field cannot be overstated.

 

[Marble]

I base a lot of my decisions on how often I can get a tag. If I can hunt the unit every year, or regularly, and it has some sort of history of producing BIG bucks (might even be 10-20 years ago) I’m interested.

As far as habitat, I hunt everything from high country, low country and everything in between. I prefer something that offers deer escapement or a chance to gain some years in age. I look for something that limits the average hunter effectiveness. That might be remote, steep, thick, weapon availability etc. The unit has also got to have a lot of public land so I can move around and hunt.

As far as other stats, I completely ignore success rates, % 4 point, number of other hunters, etc.

If I find a unit like that, and have openings in my schedule, I’m probably pursuing it.

I don’t think there is anything more valuable than hunting a place regularly, I prefer every single year. I’d trade even a 1 in 10 year type deer tag for a far less desirable unit that I have the chance to hunt 7-10 times out of 10 years every time.

Amen on hunting a unit until you know it. I don't choose units based on success rates either.

One of the things I look for is terrain that is difficult to access. Most hunters, as in 95%+, will not go there. Deer go where hunters are not.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

[Boone-In-Wall]

Great insight!

 

[Bull_n_heat]

I've heard somebody say something to the effect of....

If you want to consistently kill big deer, you may never go elk (or other species) hunting again.

They are just that dedicated to hunting mule deer.

I would push back on this notion a little bit. Maybe a lot. One thing that hunting elk (or pronghorn, or turkeys, or birds for that matter) does is make you HUNT MORE. Being a good DEER hunter is a lot about being good at hunting deer, but a ton about being a good HUNTER.

There are so many things that an elk can teach you that can apply to deer hunting. The primary thing an elk hunt will teach you is persistence, and force you to use different strategies to be successful. I know I would have never still hunted deer if I hadn't hunted elk that way. If you can crawl through timber where other guys can't glass, you'll have opportunities that 90% of guys won't even try.

If you can hunt the same areas for elk you hunt for deer, you'll just be spending that much more time there. And you just might see one that you otherwise wouldn't and learn where those deer go after the lead starts flying. You'll learn migration routes. You'll learn to win/manage the mental battles, and how your gear works or doesn't work.

Bird hunting can do the same thing (jumped lots of good deer following a bird dog), but more importantly, it makes you look at the landscape and have to THINK about how the animals use it. Does it 100% translate to deer? No, but it gives you a leg up, and you can usually take your significant other or carpet critters with.

Lastly, I believe that hunting other things provides a ton of competency with your weapon. My dad always would encourage us to shoot whitetail does when we were kids so that we could execute a shot when "the big one" came along. Setting up an improvised rest, and shooting your rifle at living creatures is way different than shooting at the range (and necessarily so). Bird hunting will also make you have to shoot quickly (and eventually shoot effectively, quickly). That translates to deer hunting readily.

 

[Dioni A]

I would push back on this notion a little bit. Maybe a lot. One thing that hunting elk (or pronghorn, or turkeys, or birds for that matter) does is make you HUNT MORE. Being a good DEER hunter is a lot about being good at hunting deer, but a ton about being a good HUNTER.

There are so many things that an elk can teach you that can apply to deer hunting. The primary thing an elk hunt will teach you is persistence, and force you to use different strategies to be successful. I know I would have never still hunted deer if I hadn't hunted elk that way. If you can crawl through timber where other guys can't glass, you'll have opportunities that 90% of guys won't even try.

If you can hunt the same areas for elk you hunt for deer, you'll just be spending that much more time there. And you just might see one that you otherwise wouldn't and learn where those deer go after the lead starts flying. You'll learn migration routes. You'll learn to win/manage the mental battles, and how your gear works or doesn't work.

Bird hunting can do the same thing (jumped lots of good deer following a bird dog), but more importantly, it makes you look at the landscape and have to THINK about how the animals use it. Does it 100% translate to deer? No, but it gives you a leg up, and you can usually take your significant other or carpet critters with.

Lastly, I believe that hunting other things provides a ton of competency with your weapon. My dad always would encourage us to shoot whitetail does when we were kids so that we could execute a shot when "the big one" came along. Setting up an improvised rest, and shooting your rifle at living creatures is way different than shooting at the range (and necessarily so). Bird hunting will also make you have to shoot quickly (and eventually shoot effectively, quickly). That translates to deer hunting readily.

Maybe In a world where you could only get one deer tag. If you can get 3-5 deer tags and spend your entire fall hunting deer then you couldn't be more wrong.

I spend my free time in the winter looking at deer on the winter range, spring I shed hunt and look at deer, summer I spend looking at deer while I'm scouting and I hunt them in the fall. Do this for a decade in multiple states and the results are undeniable.
I out work the generalist hunter so many times over that it doesn't make sense to most people how these animals can be found year after year. I still carry a rifle and practice shooting. Everything else only adds marginal benefit.

A Jack of all trades is a master of none.

 

[Sully_44]

Maybe In a world where you could only get one deer tag. If you can get 3-5 deer tags and spend your entire fall hunting deer then you couldn't be more wrong.

I spend my free time in the winter looking at deer on the winter range, spring I shed hunt and look at deer, summer I spend looking at deer while I'm scouting and I hunt them in the fall. Do this for a decade in multiple states and the results are undeniable.
I out work the generalist hunter so many times over that it doesn't make sense to most people how these animals can be found year after year. I still carry a rifle and practice shooting. Everything else only adds marginal benefit.

A Jack of all trades is a master of none.

From my perspective, it seems the guys that kill big deer (170+ with 200+ mixed in fairly often compared to a other hunters), they spend all there time on the same species, or at least 90% of their time. I’m sure hunting other species helps a little bit, and maybe you could get to be a really good hunter with more than one species if you could take from August to December off and hunt the whole time. The reality is most guys have a job and family so they spend more like 10-45 days a fall, with more guys falling on the lower end of those numbers. If they want to get good at hunting deer, or elk, or name your species, they need to spend most of their time hunting that one species.

 

[Dioni A]

From my perspective, it seems the guys that kill big deer (170+ with 200+ mixed in fairly often compared to a other hunters), they spend all there time on the same species, or at least 90% of their time. I’m sure hunting other species helps a little bit, and maybe you could get to be a really good hunter with more than one species if you could take from August to December off and hunt the whole time. The reality is most guys have a job and family so they spend more like 10-45 days a fall, with more guys falling on the lower end of those numbers. If they want to get good at hunting deer, or elk, or name your species, they need to spend most of their time hunting that one species.

Available time is almost everyones limiting factor. Even if you had unlimited time most people burn out at some point.
Ryan lampers is the only guy I can think of who has the time and drive to hunt multiple species nearly non stop and not burn out.
Trophy size isn't his biggest priority but I can think of a dozen guys who spend way less time hunting and kill bigger deer most years. They are all specialists.

 

[Bull_n_heat]

Maybe In a world where you could only get one deer tag. If you can get 3-5 deer tags and spend your entire fall hunting deer then you couldn't be more wrong.

Agreed here. All else being equal, time spent DEER hunting will make you a better deer hunter. But if the alternative is sitting on the couch once you punch your tag, go hunt something else! There's no shortage of elk available in most cases. If deer season is over (or you didn't draw multiple deer tags), it's time well spent to be hunting something else.

And I agree... I am intending to kill an elk or find a deer shed or following a bird dog, but I always have an eye on what I can learn that will apply to deer hunting.

 

[Plainsman79]

This is a question for the guys that get it done on 170+, mature type bucks year in and year out. @robby denning, I’m talking to you and the guys you talk about on the podcast and your books (Not Really Born a Hunter, Scotty, Dioni, Jordan, etc, etc), as well as any other guys doing what you guys are doing.

When you guys are looking for general or otc type deer tags, what exactly are you looking for as far as habitat, deer and hunting stats, and accessibility? Sounds like most of you have your go to units with a “better” unit drawn every few years. Are those go to units just off of a gut feel, or is there more to it than that?

Although I don’t think I’m in the same class of hunters as you mentioned. These guys should be the professors instead of the students. I do fit your description.

I primarily hunt OTC and 0-1 point units every year. Very rarely do I hunt anything that takes 2 or more points.

Habitat-It’s no secret that quality habitat produces big bucks. Healthy does produce big bucks. There has been a ton of really great information especially the last few years about this. Specifically coming out of the University of Wyoming. Habitat also has to have the ability to grow a buck long enough to reach its full antler potential. The first 3 to 4 years of a bucks life it puts most of it’s growing emphasis on building its skeleton to a solid structure that’ll withstand the rigors of a rough life, then and only then once the skeletal structure is mature, it puts the growth into its antlers. Bucks have to have the ability to hide and escape hunting pressure, whether that’s through thick cover, steep terrain, limited tag numbers, weapon restrictions or in some cases watching hunters walk and drive right by them (over looked areas).

I personally don’t pay too much attention to stats. A few of the biggest bucks I’ve ever seen, hunted and killed all came from “terrible” units.

Accessibility-This has really changed the last 10-15 years. PEOPLE ARE EVERYWHERE. It’s next to impossible to get away from everyone in easy draw units. That’s just part of the hunt. It really use to bother me but I’ve learned to watch what they are doing and more importantly when they are doing it. The guys that get to “their” glassing knob an hour or later after sunrise really aren’t to much of a threat. Most of the time the mature bucks (outside the rut) are all but put away for the day anyway and these are also the folks that’ll give it an hour or two and move on. “Must not be anything here!” Pay attention to what everyone else is doing. If you want to be in that 10% of hunters that kill 90% of the critters, don’t be like the other 90% of hunters that leave camp late every single day.

For me buck hunting is a year round activity. I’m very blessed in the way that my career puts me in some of the most historically really great buck country and I get to be around them as much as I can, not to mention making friends with the local folks that have lived there for decades (huge help). It’s even better when they text you real time pictures of bucks they see. Talk about a scouting tip without even being there! If you don’t have access to drive around and look at deer or run cameras or anything else that is related to deer, read a book about mule there’s only about 30 of them available or listen to a podcast as you go to work or exercise. Completely immerse yourself in mule deer information. It’s been said that you become like the people that you surround yourself with, surround yourself with people that like to hunt big mature bucks (and love Jesus) and you’ll see some tremendous results!

 

[Sully_44]

Available time is almost everyones limiting factor. Even if you had unlimited time most people burn out at some point.
Ryan lampers is the only guy I can think of who has the time and drive to hunt multiple species nearly non stop and not burn out.
Trophy size isn't his biggest priority but I can think of a dozen guys who spend way less time hunting and kill bigger deer most years. They are all specialists.

While I was writing my reply, he was the exact guy I thought of when burn out crossed my mind. I think if most guys spent as much time as he did doing what he does, they burn right out and probably give up the lifestyle for something with easier reward.

 

[ColoradoV]

Lots of ways to skin this cat..

Money if ya got a lot of it or sell a ton of sandwichs = skip 301 and straight to level 501.. 100-500k a year for licenses and another 25=75k for scouters will make ya no doubt one of the best antler gathers on the planet.. Moral here is no matter how ya get there sell a business, deal bricks, cash your crypto, or just daddy's checks - you need a high level of freedom w your time. Again you take that cash down to the right guy in ol Mexico and again straight tol 501...

Next in line would be private land.. Some of the tracts I know will consistently produce real real big bucks. Got a family or access to 10k ac of prime mule deer land near eagle = straight to 501.. No stopping, no passing go, and lo tags for free every year.

All joking aside one not mentioned as much is your peer group.. IMO the most important factor in hunting real big deer.. Anymore real big bucks are seldom to never kept secret and keeping a peer group to communicate with about your hunting style and areas is mandatory.. Show me your friends and I will show you your bucks.

While I have a killed most of my big guys solo and again spent quite a bit of time as well as had my best chances solo this year. It is becoming a truth that your friends will have to help more than most hunter realize.. This is give/take where you might not see the results for several years and that to me makes it that more enjoyable. I have a very small group of guys I trust and one good friend who is no doubt the guy for how I hunt. Fair to say I learned more from the interactions with him than I would in a extra 10 years of solo hunting.. Or you need someone on your level who you can trust to send live pics then call and go over I got buck x in y spot and lets go over how to kill him.. For me that took years to get over my ability to then finding guys you can trust w that type of info but has helped me more that just about anything..

Believe in balance more than most. Could not in good conscience kill more than one deer a year as for me it throws off the balance of what we all love.. Just don't see any value was so ever - in killing multiple 170 bucks I could not even eat and never will. Elk are for eating deer are for hunting.. Only hunting one state and season allows me to focus the entire season w/o any hangups. As I only hunt one single WOW buck a year.. It takes about 20 days to find one and in my case w everything involved 20 days to kill him if I am lucky.. In fact I shot my best buck on the last day if archery.

As far as dedication you do have to fully 100% dedicate at least part of your life to it. I don't have the time to scout 20+ and hunt 20+ for a single 200" type deer in more than one state while still keeping a balance in life. Factor in I have 0 interest in shooting a smaller buck and don't want to waste my time chasing one. Don't see a 20+ day archery deer hunt as a grind either. It's actually funny when folks tell me its a grind 5 days in. Well go home then as I will be here every single day!! Its not a grind but a privilege every day I get to be in the high country.

In the end you will have to dedicate a big portion of your life to mule deer and instead of attempting to level up somehow unless you can sell a pile of sandwiches or have land. Dedicate yourself to the process, the little things, the relationships, and enjoy the years honing your craft..

Last dial in how you like to hunt. Or how do you have fun?? I am an archery guy have not shot a deer w a gun in close to 20 years. Early season in my back yard is my gig man.. If rifle later is your gig dial it in but I would choose one type of hunting and dedicate yourself to it as many guys spread out too thin.

There is no finish line...

 

[bigmoose]

Colorado V. About as hardcore mule deer hunter as there is. My hat's off to you ! Living the life.

 

[robby denning]

Colorado V. About as hardcore mule deer hunter as there is. My hat's off to you ! Living the life.

his is 501 post, and he's not even selling sub sands

 

[huntnful]

Really enjoyed all the info in this thread!! I think this is the first full thread I’ve ever read every post on haha. Great info!

Mule Deer > Anything Else

I’ve enjoyed the process of finding and killing bigger and bigger deer. But it is definitely that… A PROCESS. I’ve hunted 5 states for mule deer every year for 5 years now. Trying to shorten the learning curve by spending time in the field. Until this year, the best buck I had killed was killed 2 hours from my house lol.

 

[ColoradoV]

his is 501 post, and he's not even selling sub sands

@robby denning we are chasing Jimmy!! Or the wife can barley keep up w all the business even in our small town at her iItalian deli/dessert shop! Sandwiches are just running out the door. While we can't keep up w old Jimmy on numbers we sure will beat him on quality!! In all seriousness we are looking at expanding into other mountain towns and possibly franchise.. Anteloper island here I come!!

Thanks Moose! There are lots of guys more hardcore than me as I love too many activities that I now do w my girls to commit myself to only mule deer. Some of these guys live it 24/7 and do the tour. I hunt close to home and only one season and one deer a year.

Thinking about it for a few on this new year day = I was very lucky where god dropped me off in this universe as with a grandfather who moved into Aspen from Reliance/rock springs wyo in the 40's then, them moved to marble/redstone, and ended Glenwood where my father graduated hs in 62’. Or I grew up around 501 level guys who did not even know or care there was levels.. Imagine getting 3 deer tags in the 50's. Yep it was real = get a buck bring in the tag get another.. Some years my dads family shot 12+ bucks around eagle or the roaring fork drainage back then.

As I sit typing this I am sipping coffee watching 5 bucks top one is cool short tines w extras close to 30" hold court on the last few doe that have not been bred.. Also lucky that honestly I have deer "friends" they come by the house every day chopped wood w a couple yesterday. Or they are townies that are kinda like dogs and over the years ya get to know them and watch their behaviors day in and day out all year.. Yea lucky w where I ended up if ya like muleys..