Question about bear and .357

[TM14]

This is kind of a random question but would a 180gr/200gr flatnose (or other) .357 round coming out of a 20in rifle barrel be enough to hunt black bear in VA? Definitely not at distances over 100 yards and it wouldn’t be the rifles only purpose but just to have that option.

 

[Larry Bartlett]

Bear and hogs have a slightly more robust anatomy than other animals from my experience. Double lung shots need to be slightly more aft of the shoulders than a deer kill, lest that shoulder bone stops your projectile.

IMO a .357 at close range to the head or a carefully placed double lung shot with that caliber is all you can hope for. I'd not want a wounded blackie hit with one or two rounds half assed with a .357 on my front.

I carry a 10mm with 220g fmj and won't pull the trigger on a grizzly until it's within 25-50 feet, and then it's going in its face and head not a lung shot unless it's #3 or #4 or #10 rounds inside that bad boy. .357 gives you little room for poor shots...6 rounds might not cut it if the situation goes from controlled to unpredictably in the animal's favor.

I've taken 7 brown/grizzly bear and 1 black bear. None with a pistol. Three griz @ <75-ft. Not all bears die quickly even with multiple well-placed rounds. But...I shot one with a grazing near miss and clipped an artery in the hind leg. Ran off and blead to death in <50 yards (<60 sec)...thought I missed the shot. My point is you wont know till you know so expect surprises.

 

[EdP]

Here is a good article that should help. Article

It says you should be at a MV of 1700 fps with the 180 gr from a rifle. It also discusses bullet selection and observed performance.

Using the Hornady Ballistic Calculator for Hornady's 180 gr XTP ( G1 BC of .230) and MV of 1700fps, at 100yds the bullet is still travelling at 1425 fps and is carrying 812 ft-lbs of energy. Sighted at 50 yds it would be 1.5 low at the muzzle and 2.1 low at 100. I think it would get the job done with good bullet placement. My personal preference would be for a bit more killing power.

 

[Rich M]

I load and hunt with .357 mag. Have Ruger m77/357 rifle but started with a single shot.

Loading really expands the cartridge capabilities. If I work at it, can shoot 1-inch groups (outside to outside) at 100 yds with the Ruger. If just messing around with hp loads, it shoots bottom of soda can groups to 120 yards and about 4-6 inches at 150 yards. Most folks talk about groups at 50 yds w 357 mag. If you increase the velocity a little, it shoots a lot tighter. Part of the issue is the bullet. More on that in a minute.

My loads are 1900-2000 fps. The first shot is almost always 1900 fps until the barrel expands a tad. Meaning to test a couple .355 (9mm) or .357 bullets resized to .356. and see if the reduced bullet friction makes a diff. Can reload and shoot any .355, .356, or .357 bullets. Been fun testing stuff and the .350 Legend bullets all fit, some are too tough tho.

Anyway, my rifle has killed 14 deer and at least 1 hog w 158 gr xtp fp loads. A 180 pound buck ran a lil ways w dbl lung. The other deer and hog dropped on the spot.

The rifle has also killed w 158 gr Swift A-Frame loads. 2 deer and a 600-700# beef cow. The 2 deer ran 50-75 yds or so w dbl lung, cow dropped like a sack of taters. At 25 yds the bullet went between eyes, thru skull and then about 16 inches of neck meat on the young bull. This load performs like a wide metaplat lead bullet. I’d use it for moose/bear/another beef cow with no qualms or hesitation.

I prefer the hornady 158 gr xtp fp for deer. The bullet design and expansion tends to just drop em. Its incredible how well it works out to 100 yds. Had 1 issue w jacket and core separation on the heavy t-shaped bone on the lower part of the shoulder blade of a 125#-class buck. They will penetrate upper shoulder blade and drop the deer.

Have also started shooting 158-165 grain pointy bullets. It shoots well to 200 yards. We’ve only been shooting an 8 inch plate and it doesn’t miss. Scope is 4x so havent tried to shoot for groups at 200 yet but will this year. Both bullet brands im using are slated to expand down below 1,200 fps on one and to 800 fps w other. Basically makes it a 200 yd deer gun on paper. Go figure. I want to test it and see.

Back to your question. A 158-180 flat point, jacketed bullet will be adequate for a bear. A 180 gr wide metaplat lead solid will zip right thru the ribcage of any size bear at 100 yds, easy peasy.

Just know that the 180-gr solid will not deform much and the resulting shock and wound channel will be narrow, requiring a better shot and longer time period for death. Wait a while before tracking.

I wouldnt use a hp load cause they get big bears up there and a hollow point might not be able to go as deep as necessary on a fat 500# bear if you hit the shoulder blade.

If you dont reload, Buffalo Bore has some hotter .357 mag loads that will do the job admirably.

Study a bear’s anatomy, make a good shot and smile for the picture! The gun has limitations but will work.

 

[TM14]

I load and hunt with .357 mag. Have Ruger m77/357 rifle but started with a single shot.

Loading really expands the cartridge capabilities. If I work at it, can shoot 1-inch groups (outside to outside) at 100 yds with the Ruger. If just messing around with hp loads, it shoots bottom of soda can groups to 120 yards and about 4-6 inches at 150 yards. Most folks talk about groups at 50 yds w 357 mag. If you increase the velocity a little, it shoots a lot tighter. Part of the issue is the bullet. More on that in a minute.

My loads are 1900-2000 fps. The first shot is almost always 1900 fps until the barrel expands a tad. Meaning to test a couple .355 (9mm) or .357 bullets resized to .356. and see if the reduced bullet friction makes a diff. Can reload and shoot any .355, .356, or .357 bullets. Been fun testing stuff and the .350 Legend bullets all fit, some are too tough tho.

Anyway, my rifle has killed 14 deer and at least 1 hog w 158 gr xtp fp loads. A 180 pound buck ran a lil ways w dbl lung. The other deer and hog dropped on the spot.

The rifle has also killed w 158 gr Swift A-Frame loads. 2 deer and a 600-700# beef cow. The 2 deer ran 50-75 yds or so w dbl lung, cow dropped like a sack of taters. At 25 yds the bullet went between eyes, thru skull and then about 16 inches of neck meat on the young bull. This load performs like a wide metaplat lead bullet. I’d use it for moose/bear/another beef cow with no qualms or hesitation.

I prefer the hornady 158 gr xtp fp for deer. The bullet design and expansion tends to just drop em. Its incredible how well it works out to 100 yds. Had 1 issue w jacket and core separation on the heavy t-shaped bone on the lower part of the shoulder blade of a 125#-class buck. They will penetrate upper shoulder blade and drop the deer.

Have also started shooting 158-165 grain pointy bullets. It shoots well to 200 yards. We’ve only been shooting an 8 inch plate and it doesn’t miss. Scope is 4x so havent tried to shoot for groups at 200 yet but will this year. Both bullet brands im using are slated to expand down below 1,200 fps on one and to 800 fps w other. Basically makes it a 200 yd deer gun on paper. Go figure. I want to test it and see.

Back to your question. A 158-180 flat point, jacketed bullet will be adequate for a bear. A 180 gr wide metaplat lead solid will zip right thru the ribcage of any size bear at 100 yds, easy peasy.

Just know that the 180-gr solid will not deform much and the resulting shock and wound channel will be narrow, requiring a better shot and longer time period for death. Wait a while before tracking.

I wouldnt use a hp load cause they get big bears up there and a hollow point might not be able to go as deep as necessary on a fat 500# bear if you hit the shoulder blade.

If you dont reload, Buffalo Bore has some hotter .357 mag loads that will do the job admirably.

Study a bear’s anatomy, make a good shot and smile for the picture! The gun has limitations but will work.

Thanks for all that information! Do you have any specific Buffalo Bore loads you would recommend? I’ve also seen heavy .357 by Grizzly

 

[Rich M]

Thanks for all that information! Do you have any specific Buffalo Bore loads you would recommend? I’ve also seen heavy .357 by Grizzly

The grizzly ammo is almost 1/2 the cost of buffalo bore.

The 180 gr solids from either will work. Be pushing 1700-1800 fps out of rifle.

Buffalo bore also has barnes bullets. Not sure if grizzly has. The coppers are good bullets for expanding and staying together.

If you want a hollow point, the 180 gr version is the way to go.

 

[TM14]

The grizzly ammo is almost 1/2 the cost of buffalo bore.

The 180 gr solids from either will work. Be pushing 1700-1800 fps out of rifle.

Buffalo bore also has barnes bullets. Not sure if grizzly has. The coppers are good bullets for expanding and staying together.

If you want a hollow point, the 180 gr version is the way to go.

Alright thanks! I’ve been looking at going with the Grizzly 180gr Wide Flat Nose Gas Checked rounds

 

[Rich M]

Alright thanks! I’ve been looking at going with the Grizzly 180gr Wide Flat Nose Gas Checked rounds

Sounds good. The gas check is a copper cup that will reduce lead fouling in the barrel.

 

[Wmmichael20]

Sounds interesting guys,I've taken a bear with a lever gun in 44 mag with factory hornady 240 xtp loads,over bait appropriate 30 yard shot and the bear went 20 yards don't see why a 357 mag with a big flat nose bullet out of a rifle wouldn't do the trick.

 

[Rich M]

Sounds interesting guys,I've taken a bear with a lever gun in 44 mag with factory hornady 240 xtp loads,over bait appropriate 30 yard shot and the bear went 20 yards don't see why a 357 mag with a big flat nose bullet out of a rifle wouldn't do the trick.

If he was gonna be shooting 30 yards over bait, a 180 gr HP at lower velocity would be the ticket.

 

[jnawalaniec]

The grizzly ammo is almost 1/2 the cost of buffalo bore.

The 180 gr solids from either will work. Be pushing 1700-1800 fps out of rifle.

Buffalo bore also has barnes bullets. Not sure if grizzly has. The coppers are good bullets for expanding and staying together.

If you want a hollow point, the 180 gr version is the way to go.

I got a box of 200grain grizzly cartridge loads, 3 of the 4 of shot blew out the primers and locked up my GP100. Reached out to customer service and haven’t heard back.

 

[Wmmichael20]

If he was gonna be shooting 30 yards over bait, a 180 gr HP at lower velocity would be the ticket.

I agree sir.

 

[Rich M]

I got a box of 200grain grizzly cartridge loads, 3 of the 4 of shot blew out the primers and locked up my GP100. Reached out to customer service and haven’t heard back.

I'm sure they'll get back w you. Seems like those are some hot loads. I'd stop there and drop back. Glad nothing else happened.

 

[tkhuntsman]

This is kind of a random question but would a 180gr/200gr flatnose (or other) .357 round coming out of a 20in rifle barrel be enough to hunt black bear in VA? Definitely not at distances over 100 yards and it wouldn’t be the rifles only purpose but just to have that option.

Yep it kills em dead

 

[FCCDerek]

It's more than enough for black bear. Pick a good bullet and place it judiciously and you've got a dead black bear. People are getting way too far into the weeds on this one. A 180 Cast Performance WFNGC at 1700fps will punch through both sides of a bear and leave a mess all the way through it. Or an elk or moose for that matter. There is no bone on a black bears body that would stop that bullet from passing through it.

 

[TheGDog]

I load and hunt with .357 mag. Have Ruger m77/357 rifle but started with a single shot.

Just curious how ya like that m77? Any issues related to it's operation someone should be aware of whose considering buying one? How well do those rotary magazines work? NO issues with them? (Asking 'cause for this one spot that's thicker habitat, looked into them for a lighter weight option for the hike-in.

 

[Rooggvc]

Just for perspective. I killed a black bear with my 9mm and cheap remanufactured Remington 115 JHP. One shot to the chest, and the bear ran 30 yards and pilled up against a tree. Personally I wouldn't hesitate to use a .357 especially out of a rifle.

 

[Rich M]

Just curious how ya like that m77? Any issues related to it's operation someone should be aware of whose considering buying one? How well do those rotary magazines work? NO issues with them? (Asking 'cause for this one spot that's thicker habitat, looked into them for a lighter weight option for the hike-in.

There have been issues w the magazines. I solved it by using 2 pointy nose bullets as nos. 2&3 - used the 140 FTX, then the 158 gr Fury. Bullet length is a concern w pointy bullets.

I love the gun, wish the magazine design was better.

I shoot 158 gr XTP FPs at 1900 fps and they will flat out level most deer. Had 1 run w dbl lung (180# buck), had bits n pieces of rib and meat in the offside spray. 100 yds or so of trail that came out the entrance hole and there he was. The other 15 or so does and smaller bucks drt.

Gun shoots hps good to about 125 yds. It shoots 158 gr fury and 165 gr FTX (.355. - a little long for mag so load em as singles)) at same 1900 fps velocity, we shoot 8-inch steel at 200 yds with them using 4x scope.

It has shot 1 inch groups (5 shots outside to outside) with meticulous care and will shoot inside a soda can bottom all day long at 100-125 yards w hps and pointy.

I really like it and wish had one 40 yrs ago. Gun weighs 5#, recoil is 5#, and noise is negligible. Cheap and easy to reload and shoot.

I did get a 350 Legend and would expect the same kind of performance w same bullets. My Legend loads are 2300 fps-ish. Ruger American Ranch Rifle bolt. Think it is 6#, recoil is closer to 10#, noise can be loud w the 16 inch barrel. 1/2 inch gun at 100 w 165 ftxs. Less than 1.25 inch at 250 yards.

I need to size some 158 XTP FPs to .356 and load em to about 2,000 fps for drt performance down here in the swamps and able to reach out to 250 w the 165 FTXs.

Sounds like both would suit your needs but if you want to have same ammo for wheel gun and long gun, M77/357 is for you.

Sorry for long winded trying to hit all points.

 

[TheGDog]

Sorry for long winded trying to hit all points.

Not at all! Attention to detail is part of my job, so appreciate the info and shared experiences, thanks!

I'd bought a Marllin 1894 in .44 Mag... but they don't shoot lead-free's accurately so had to return it. They're support staff allegedly tried 5 different barrels and couldn't get them to fire accurately. That funky 1:38 twist rate the culprit.

I hear now that Ruger is at the Helm that they're gonna now make'em w/ 1:20.

I'd gotten interested in a .44 Mag / .357 Mag as an option because of this spot where I gotta hike in like 6mi each way and then do an ambush sit in leafy gear. The shots have been 25-35yds tops there, so figured it'd shave off a damn lotta weight compared to the heavy Marlin 336GBL I have, or the .308 bolt gun.

We'll see. Just picked up a Howa SuperLite for my 16yo son to try to get him on his first this year. They're supposed to be 4Lbs 7oz before scope and it feels like it sho' nuff.

Hey Question.... as a sidearm I ended up getting him a Ruger LCRx .357 snubbie, because the S&W M60 3" I had him carrying, I didn't like the idea of it only being .38spl +P for defense in the woods. Even though we only have black bear as biggest possible threat. As long as I get like maybe a 140gr load lead-free (has to be lead-free in CA) like an Xtreme Penetrator... he should be fine with that snubbie as a sidearm, yeah? (BTW, got that snubbie because, much like me, he doesn't like the long trigger pull of semi's. ) I bring a G29 to shave weight of my Ruger Security Six 4" which was 39oz loaded. Figured this way he gets more oomph since .357 but still gets that light 17 oz so when we have to climb up this Gawd Awful buckthorn covered mountain that's crazy steep in the new zone I'm trying to get one at, that way it won't be weighing him down as much.

 

[Rich M]

Not at all! Attention to detail is part of my job, so appreciate the info and shared experiences, thanks!

I'd bought a Marllin 1894 in .44 Mag... but they don't shoot lead-free's accurately so had to return it. They're support staff allegedly tried 5 different barrels and couldn't get them to fire accurately. That funky 1:38 twist rate the culprit.

I hear now that Ruger is at the Helm that they're gonna now make'em w/ 1:20.

I'd gotten interested in a .44 Mag / .357 Mag as an option because of this spot where I gotta hike in like 6mi each way and then do an ambush sit in leafy gear. The shots have been 25-35yds tops there, so figured it'd shave off a damn lotta weight compared to the heavy Marlin 336GBL I have, or the .308 bolt gun.

We'll see. Just picked up a Howa SuperLite for my 16yo son to try to get him on his first this year. They're supposed to be 4Lbs 7oz before scope and it feels like it sho' nuff.

Hey Question.... as a sidearm I ended up getting him a Ruger LCRx .357 snubbie, because the S&W M60 3" I had him carrying, I didn't like the idea of it only being .38spl +P for defense in the woods. Even though we only have black bear as biggest possible threat. As long as I get like maybe a 140gr load lead-free (has to be lead-free in CA) like an Xtreme Penetrator... he should be fine with that snubbie as a sidearm, yeah? (BTW, got that snubbie because, much like me, he doesn't like the long trigger pull of semi's. ) I bring a G29 to shave weight of my Ruger Security Six 4" which was 39oz loaded. Figured this way he gets more oomph since .357 but still gets that light 17 oz so when we have to climb up this Gawd Awful buckthorn covered mountain that's crazy steep in the new zone I'm trying to get one at, that way it won't be weighing him down as much.
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At those ranges, a 357 mag would be hard to beat. You can do a single shot and save $$$.

I had gotten barnes hp all coppers and they shot about 1.5 inch at 100 yds. I could seen copper HPs and the super penetrators being viable options. Not sure how big your bears run.

I carry a 3 inch ss revolver from time to time, never felt it wasnt enough for black bears or hogs or …