PSA: Hunting Elk With An Arrow Under 450 Grains Is Unethical

[Billy Goat]

It's a shame an organization like that is going to deem such a wide range unethical. That's not language that I feel a bowhunting organization should be using. It's something that will just be ammo for anti-hunting groups. They could call it something else, but they are stating that probably 80% of the archery hunters are "Unethical" by their definition.


No mention of any of the factors of penetration, just a click bait chart.

 

[axeforce6]

My full freezer disagrees with that chart but that’s ok. To each their own.

 

[100%DIYazCOUES]

Impossible to judge without factoring in speed

 

[Bump79]

I laughed so hard when I saw this. Then I read the comments and legitimately people were planning to bump up their arrow weight based on it.

I'll be the first to say I shoot 445 grains. The reason why? I suck at ranging animals. I practice but it's my weak point. Plus at 30", 70# well designed sharp fixed head of a modern compound I have no concerns regarding penetration.

I also think it's silly to plan your entire setup around 1 factor being bone penetration. Statistically your more likely to hit back than forward.

 

[Mark8623]

Was thinking about sizing up to 3,000 grain. Just what I needed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bojangles808]

Fake news

 

[Reburn]

ugh.
these guys again.
I picked a hell of a time to come back.
Cant wait for the flurry of arrow build threads that quote this chart.

 

[TheTone]

I’ll let the pile of dead bulls in my basement and garage know the sub 450 grain arrows I killed them with shouldn’t have worked.

I think I’m currently shooting about 450 but I tend to focus on stuff like good arrow flight, good accuracy, quality sharp broadheads and not taking marginal shots

 

[Ho5tile1]

As others have said to each there own I shoot 550 grains at whitetail 2 years ago I was at 650 grains. Things that l liked are My groups got better ,every deer I have shot has been a pass through even in the scapula. Before I sniffed the fairy dust I had a bunch of arrows that did not pass through think I was in the 400 grain range. I read a lot about how the trajectory sucked etc. I’ve had zero problems with that killed a deer at 55 yards with the 650 grain set up. But my site would bottom out at like 70ish yards so dropped to 550 grains my VXR 28 and my V3 31 at 29 inches 78 pounds slings those arrows at 285 fps well the V3 is a few fps slower I also dont guess yardage and have not been able to elk hunt so maybe then I would need to do that. I will say at 285 fps it’s not like a mortar shell at all it’s pretty flat. So my experience with heavier has been all positive. I would rather have that plan b arrow every day of the week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LONE HUNTER]

This right here is why when the thread about "Archery Terms you Hate" popped up my contribution was "The Ashby Studies".......... You would think deer and elk are armor clad dinosaurs based on the assessment these guys give. Not that everything they say is wrong per se, but they are way too dramatic about what works and what doesn't. A sharp stick in the right spot works........ Let alone machined steel sharpened with modern techniques on a carbon shaft.......Arrow flight matters way more than mass...........

 

[Billy Goat]

As others have said to each there own I shoot 550 grains at whitetail 2 years ago I was at 650 grains. Things that l liked are My groups got better ,every deer I have shot has been a pass through even in the scapula. Before I sniffed the fairy dust I had a bunch of arrows that did not pass through think I was in the 400 grain range. I read a lot about how the trajectory sucked etc. I’ve had zero problems with that killed a deer at 55 yards with the 650 grain set up. But my site would bottom out at like 70ish yards so dropped to 550 grains my VXR 28 and my V3 31 at 29 inches 78 pounds slings those arrows at 285 fps well the V3 is a few fps slower I also dont guess yardage and have not been able to elk hunt so maybe then I would need to do that. I will say at 285 fps it’s not like a mortar shell at all it’s pretty flat. So my experience with heavier has been all positive. I would rather have that plan b arrow every day of the week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Curious what your tuning regimen was when you had penetration issues.

Most of the scapula is the thickness of a rib, if you aren't getting penetration through it, you got issues. The knuckle created by the lower scapula and the humorous is where most have issues, however on a good broadside shot it's not really covering vitals.


285 is generally a sweet spot for speed, it's still relatively easy to tune, and gives good trajectory.

 

[Long Cut]

I’ve got a 650 grain setup and now a 377 grain setup
28.5 At 70#

Going to use Mechanicals on the 650’s and IW/Exodus/Magnus on the 377’s.

In theory on a Southern Whitetail, both should suffice but the 377’s should slightly outperform the energy hog mechanicals?
Time will tell.

 

[ddd-shooter]

Lost me at 500 is the "A" threshold for yotes.

Can you see the average archer lobbing 600 grain arrows at antelope because they wanted an “a” arrow?

Good grief these guys could really go away….

 

[justin davis]

I had a pass thru on an elk last year with a 440 grain arrow. But I’m a fail according to this chart

 

[chindits]

I made it! Cs and Ds get degrees!! At 461 that is the only reason I got a pass through on my bull last fall at 23 yards. It’s also the only reason I shot it in the vitals instead of the shoulder. Tracking that 50 meter blood trail was hell. Should of had a heavier arrow and shot him in the shoulder.

Sarcasm in case nobody smells what I’m stepping in.

 

[CJF]

I laughed so hard when I saw this. Then I read the comments and legitimately people were planning to bump up their arrow weight based on it.

I'll be the first to say I shoot 445 grains. The reason why? I suck at ranging animals. I practice but it's my weak point. Plus at 30", 70# well designed sharp fixed head of a modern compound I have no concerns regarding penetration.

I also think it's silly to plan your entire setup around 1 factor being bone penetration. Statistically your more likely to hit back than forward.

To be clear…my post about ordering new arrows was sarcasm.

 

[AaronMColeman]

Why don;t we just shoot everything at 1000g+ since that gets an A+ across the board?

I shoot fairly heavy arrows for elk at around 550g. Maybe I'll just start nocking two at a time to get over 1000g.

 

[doc holiday13]

I'm curious why I need such a heavy arrow for turkey hunting

 

[Ho5tile1]

Curious what your tuning regimen was when you had penetration issues.

Most of the scapula is the thickness of a rib, if you aren't getting penetration through it, you got issues. The knuckle created by the lower scapula and the humorous is where most have issues, however on a good broadside shot it's not really covering vitals.


285 is generally a sweet spot for speed, it's still relatively easy to tune, and gives good trajectory.

I have zero problems with tuning I shoot iron will solids and Qad heads, But I start with with getting my center shot right and make sure everything is level check timing. Then shoot Bare shafts through paper and adjust from there switch top hats if needed then I move outside shoot broadheads and field points to make sure I have same poi back to 60 yards I’m not taking a shot father then that. Once that’s also good I can put almost any broadheads I want on and they hit with field points. With my light arrow days unless it was a perfect shot I almost never got pass throughs I also used mechanical heads then as well so I’m sure that didn’t help. Now when I hit them my arrow blasts through them. So far every deer I have shot with them has been a pass through and they where not all perfect shots. When I’m aiming I aim right above the leg sometimes I hit left a little on the thicker part. With the heavy arrows I’ve hit there only once and it went through no problem. Also I’m not dissecting the deer to say it hit the thicker part dead on or if it skipped off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[roosiebull]

I tend to lean more towards the heavy over light side when it comes to arrow weight. 700 grains is still pretty crazy imo. In a perfect world where every shot was 20 yards, I’d give it a go. Too many variables though for me to feel comfortable at that weight. I’m all for planning for plan b hits, but with elk, if you hit near the front of the shoulder blade, I don’t think a 1000 grain arrow is getting through.

That whole organization is really going off the rails lately… they are the archery equivalent to a radical liberal