PSA for Solar

[JohnDough]

Yeah that seems crazy. Good luck moving and trying to sell your place with a solar lien on the house. What’s the life expectancy of solar? In 20 year I bet the technology is ancient. Then it’s time for a new 20 year policy!

There is no solar lean on my house. Further, my estate has appreciated significantly more than the $30k or so that I owe at this point. The sale would not be problematic. The warranty for my panels is 30 years production guarantee. Which means they should be producing 80% or more then, what they were, new, and if not, will be replaced by the company free of charge (the company that made them, not the installer, yes, I called to verify with Silfab). I bought my panels in 2019, SIlfab SLG-M 370's, and they are rated at 19% efficient. Currently, available soon, the best panels for civilian use (NASA has some @40% panels, of a different design, not suited), are going to be rated at 24.9%. This represents a 6% increase in efficiency over 5 years. Solar panel efficiency YoY gains have gone WAY down from their inception, and 2019 felt like as good a time as any to buy, at that point.

 

[Halfchrome]

The crazy part is there's a bunch of young folks falling for this too. A friend of mine put a system in last year with batteries and a backup generator and it cost him around the same 70k range and he got a 20 year loan on it at 2%. After the first year he said after his energy savings he's still paying thousands towards the loan every year for a system that will probably need to be replaced by the time the loans paid off. Granted he's a bit of a prepped so his system will help him power his home if need be.

 

[syoungs]

My sister didnt listen to me or our dad and fell for the door to door scam, ended up needing to sell the house within a year. She lost it all, partially because of the solar loan.

 

[doc holiday13]

The crazy part is there's a bunch of young folks falling for this too. A friend of mine put a system in last year with batteries and a backup generator and it cost him around the same 70k range and he got a 20 year loan on it at 2%. After the first year he said after his energy savings he's still paying thousands towards the loan every year for a system that will probably need to be replaced by the time the loans paid off. Granted he's a bit of a prepped so his system will help him power his home if need be.

Key notes: The interest on these solar loans is tax deductible.

My system plus my energy usage do currently cost me roughly what I would be paying on the regular. However in 3 years i will be saving money, My power company gives me a rolling credit for my power generation. I also have the option of putting up a bigger array and selling directly to the power company. Not everyone has these options

Battery systems ARE expensive and NOT worth it unless you're gonna be there for a long ass time and you live in an area prone to frequent outages AND you need the power for something critical. BUT if something is that critical you might want to consider a generator system. There are ways around NEEDING power backup. Believe it or not your can add additional insulation to your chest freezers. Water systems can be bolstered by using a water tower type system(ie elevated holding tank)

 

[Beendare]

Here in CA its required that you add solar if you remodel your home.

Man, I would love to own a business like the local PGE; You spend the tens of thousands in capital outlay, do any maintenance and they get 99% of the profit from it with you getting a measly 1-2% reimbursement for Electricity they get in their grid.

What a scam.

 

[TaperPin]

As for solar, some in our extended family were early adopters and the panels and inverters are still going at double the original estimated lifespan. It doesn’t make sense if you switch houses often, but many home improvements don’t.

Power companies spend millions to poo poo solar, because it is in their best interest to have a monopoly. That’s always been the case and many people eat it up. You never hear power companies complain when they build a big solar farm.

If someone has a way to keep old folks of sound mind and poor judgement from pissing money away let me know. We found out there’s no equity left in elderly relatives’ house and not enough retirement income to do squat.

More and more stories from friends mirror ours - old people are often not equipped to navigate the modern world when they can text a donation to this or that - their viewing and listening habits bombard them with the idea antifa is out to kill them if Central American gangs don’t, and the grifters reminds me of Jim and Tammy Baker selling a path to salvation that just drains their bank account.

Even if you think your elderly folks have their duck in a row, find ways to keep a finger on the pulse of their financials. We’re lucky to be able to buy a second house for them to live in, but many are not.

 

[jmez]

I'm no solar expert but I don't think it is going to increase the value of a home long term. If I'm looking at a home with a 20 yearl old solar system I'm not paying extra for that.

 

[Tod osier]

I'm no solar expert but I don't think it is going to increase the value of a home long term. If I'm looking at a home with a 20 yearl old solar system I'm not paying extra for that.

Agree. We bought a house with a brand new huge array and although we are glad to have it, we assigned it ZERO value in our offer (owner paid 100K for it). Although it is basically functional, it has been a HUGE PITA getting little things fixed on it because of the installer and support. There can me more maintenance needed than appears (parts do fail) and if you are buying used, you are not the one picking the product or who supports it.

 

[loganwayne]

I dont think I'd ever put solar on my house. BUT my camper has two panels and we just finished putting 8 panels and a battery bank on his boat house (little cabin floating in a lake). Took out his propane fridge and put a compressor fridge out of an rv in it. No more running out of propane and food going bad and no more running a generator.

 

[doc holiday13]

As for solar, some in our extended family were early adopters and the panels and inverters are still going at double the original estimated lifespan. It doesn’t make sense if you switch houses often, but many home improvements don’t.

Power companies spend millions to poo poo solar, because it is in their best interest to have a monopoly. That’s always been the case and many people eat it up. You never hear power companies complain when they build a big solar farm.

If someone has a way to keep old folks of sound mind and poor judgement from pissing money away let me know. We found out there’s no equity left in elderly relatives’ house and not enough retirement income to do squat.

More and more stories from friends mirror ours - old people are often not equipped to navigate the modern world when they can text a donation to this or that - their viewing and listening habits bombard them with the idea antifa is out to kill them if Central American gangs don’t, and the grifters reminds me of Jim and Tammy Baker selling a path to salvation that just drains their bank account.

Even if you think your elderly folks have their duck in a row, find ways to keep a finger on the pulse of their financials. We’re lucky to be able to buy a second house for them to live in, but many are not.

You hit a lot of key points, but the overarching one is that we should have our elderly parents or grandparents living with us so they don't have to deal with people trying to scam them.

 

[TaperPin]

You hit a lot of key points, but the overarching one is that we should have our elderly parents or grandparents living with us so they don't have to deal with people trying to scam them.

There’s a lot of wisdom in that idea.

 

[JohnDough]

Agree. We bought a house with a brand new huge array and although we are glad to have it, we assigned it ZERO value in our offer (owner paid 100K for it). Although it is basically functional, it has been a HUGE PITA getting little things fixed on it because of the installer and support. There can me more maintenance needed than appears (parts do fail) and if you are buying used, you are not the one picking the product or who supports it.

Nah. The only issues could be inverters mainly. That said, I run US made panels from a company that's been around likely as long as many of this boards members, and German inverters of same pedigree. Fixing anything would be cake. As in, DIY almost.

 

[JohnDough]

You hit a lot of key points, but the overarching one is that we should have our elderly parents or grandparents living with us so they don't have to deal with people trying to scam them.

A college roommate's girlfriend did that for her mom. She promptly burned the condo down and skipped out of town to another state, leaving her daughters under insured condo in ruins physically and metaphorically.

 

[Tod osier]

Nah. The only issues could be inverters mainly. That said, I run US made panels from a company that's been around likely as long as many of this boards members, and German inverters of same pedigree. Fixing anything would be cake. As in, DIY almost.

What do you mean Nah? Optimizers go, our backup interface is bad right now and we had problems with the LG Chem battery.

If you want to drop by with a new backup interface and pop it in for me, I'd appreciate it.

As I said, it is a combination of installer and support that people need to be mindful of, if it is in place when you buy you don't control the quality either (other than to walk away).

 

[Speaks]

I own an off-grid cabin. When we built it my dad owned it and had a solar system installed. It was really just always a giant mess and a money pit. Batteries involved dont last that long and are very expensive. Stuff in the inverter system would go wrong and mess it all up and be very expensive to diagnose and fix.

Power goes out, see power coming from the panels batteries not charging but even when charged manually power not going to the breaker box. Generator that runs through the inverter with a selector switch can charge the batteries but not send power to the house. 4-5 hours of electrician time to find a breaker in the inverter went bad, order the part and wait a month, get the part and install it, still not working for some reason. 4-5 hours more electrician time and find the display keypad by the door is out, order that, wait a month. Get it installed. Go half the summer with no power source at the cabin and drop $2k. Repeat again next summer.

Finally a few summers ago there was a similar issue, though my batteries were also pretty well shot so I was looking at $4k in batteries before we started the diagnostic process. I instead had him rip the whole thing out and install a transfer switch that let me choose between my 11kw Kohler, my Honda 2200 or my 3.5kw anker back up battery. I can run everything but the well pump from the honda 2200 for 8 hours on 1 gallon of premium gas. Turn on the Kohler for 10 min twice a day to fill the pressure tank from the well (or leave it on while someone is showering). $8 a day on gas and $500 per year for propane puts my all in cost per year under $1k and really some of that propane is running the propane fridge, water heater, stove, etc.

Newer systems are getting better but they are still a pain. I like the idea of them but hate actually dealing with them. I think we are going to need to see a jump from our current lithium battery tech before it truly becomes a viable solution, at least for me.