Proposed Deer plan for Central Idaho(not official)

[Andrew12gauge]

I see your point that a zone model would at least lead to improved accuracy in the harvest statistics and hunter numbers in each zone but I don't see how it would reduce crowding especially if quotas are applied to any of the zones. Quotas would just push hunters into surrounding unlimited zones and increase crowding there.

The way that I think it would reduce crowding is ending people who jump from one unit to the next. How many people currently go hunt Salmon or Challis areas, but don’t get a buck before the 24th, then go into 39, 43, or 48 because they are open until the 31st and maybe some of them don’t get a buck and head up to the Selway or the panhandle? What would unit 39 look like with 10% less hunters during the last weekend in October? That’s just a wild guess but I would bet being so close to Boise it is probably at least that many hunters or more who hunt another unit early in the season and then finish out the season in unit 39. For that matter what would the late archery hunt in unit 39 look like on a zone model when everybody who didn’t get one during rifle isn’t out there to shoot a doe. Or 55 archery, 28 archery etc.


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[Spoonbill]

The way that I think it would reduce crowding is ending people who jump from one unit to the next. How many people currently go hunt Salmon or Challis areas, but don’t get a buck before the 24th, then go into 39, 43, or 48 because they are open until the 31st and maybe some of them don’t get a buck and head up to the Selway or the panhandle? What would unit 39 look like with 10% less hunters during the last weekend in October? That’s just a wild guess but I would bet being so close to Boise it is probably at least that many hunters or more who hunt another unit early in the season and then finish out the season in unit 39. For that matter what would the late archery hunt in unit 39 look like on a zone model when everybody who didn’t get one during rifle isn’t out there to shoot a doe. Or 55 archery, 28 archery etc.


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I think ending archery does in units that are not overpopulated would go a long way in helping the overall population stay healthy, especially those post rut archery hunts.

 

[idelkslayer]

The way that I think it would reduce crowding is ending people who jump from one unit to the next. How many people currently go hunt Salmon or Challis areas, but don’t get a buck before the 24th, then go into 39, 43, or 48 because they are open until the 31st and maybe some of them don’t get a buck and head up to the Selway or the panhandle? What would unit 39 look like with 10% less hunters during the last weekend in October? That’s just a wild guess but I would bet being so close to Boise it is probably at least that many hunters or more who hunt another unit early in the season and then finish out the season in unit 39. For that matter what would the late archery hunt in unit 39 look like on a zone model when everybody who didn’t get one during rifle isn’t out there to shoot a doe. Or 55 archery, 28 archery etc.


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Before I could form a strong opinion on that I would need more information about hunter behavior. I would like to know how many hunters jump to different units to chase seasons that are still open. I remember speaking to IDFG biologists and managers about hunter participation a few years ago and they said that most hunters will spend 5-6 days in the field regardless of season length or other opportunities. For most hunters there is a limit to how many paid vacation days or non-paid days off they can sustain. This has lead me to believe that the number of unit jumping hunters is quite low but maybe it isn't. I'm not sure that IDFG has the ability to quantify the number and timing of unit jumpers, but it is something they should try to understand before making changes. Changing to a zone structure would not help much if the number of unit jumpers is low.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Before I could form a strong opinion on that I would need more information about hunter behavior. I would like to know how many hunters jump to different units to chase seasons that are still open. I remember speaking to IDFG biologists and managers about hunter participation a few years ago and they said that most hunters will spend 5-6 days in the field regardless of season length or other opportunities. For most hunters there is a limit to how many paid vacation days or non-paid days off they can sustain. This has lead me to believe that the number of unit jumping hunters is quite low but maybe it isn't. I'm not sure that IDFG has the ability to quantify the number and timing of unit jumpers, but it is something they should try to understand before making changes. Changing to a zone structure would not help much if the number of unit jumpers is low.

IMO it’s not as many as he makes sound like, with all due respect. Would be great to get real data on that before making suggestions to the commission.

I know plenty of Idahoans down around those units that hunt hard and never jump to other units for later dates. Their wives wouldn’t let them if they wanted to anyways.

In fact I’m the only person I know that might bounce around up here but usually it’s for a whitetail if I don’t find a mule deer worth shooting.

 

[IDMuleyKid]

I just received this and was wondering what your opinions are, Deer loss was high in central Idaho from last winter, that along with a high number of NR hunters has many locals looking for a way relieve stress on the resource.
I'm not agreeing/disagreeing with the letter but would like your opinions, thanks

I truthfully cannot see how Idaho guys (I’m one) can put any blame on non-res, they’re limited in #’s and have terrible success rates, each non-res I talk to is struggling other than an occasional lucky guy.

Also,

I've not hunted in this part of the world, but isn't the NR total hunters essentially capped at 10% of the tags in every OTC unit?

I'd also like to see more sportsmen letters giving metrics of what success looks like if this is implemented. Like what's the goal? Higher buck ratio? Higher harvest success per hunter? More % of 4-pt deer taken each year on average?

It seems like the goal with this letter is to "increase deer numbers to objective" but unfortunately bucks don't have fawns, so that'll be a failed goal if any version of this is adopted.

Important note, units 48/49 are being developed like crazy and have become the adopted homes of many rich out-of-staters, this is more detrimental than any transient nr hunter who has a extremely low success rate.

Anecdotally, in 12 general rifle days, 6 in 43, I only had 3 hunters get within sight of me the whole time, these guys hunt off dirt bike trails and act surprised when others show up.

 

[IDMuleyKid]

Some of those units have plenty of cover and backcountry for bucks to get big. Hunting pressure is high but you can still escape it. Careful what you wish for on limiting hunter numbers. I’d rather have the weekend warriors show up and then leave, rather than have people hunting hard for a week because it’s their only tag/unit to hunt.

Idahoans are so spoiled and simply don’t understand how bad it’d suck to have 7 day seasons, limited to one small unit which you can hunt once every 3 years.

Especially, when the same unit they complain about has the potential for 170+ bucks every year, even with the “pressure.”

 

[IDMuleyKid]

@idelkslayer gets it. We are going to piss and moan our way into hunting every 3 years.

Which is even more saddening with the amount of backcountry and hard to hunt country we possess, these deer are not struggling due to hunters in any sense.

 

[IDMNT17]

This proposition is not a fix. Us Idahoans will eventually be the end of our OTC hunting. This proposition was written up by people who hunt those units and simply want less people there, not caring that it will put more hunters in other OTC units. On the flip side it may put more hunters in those units thinking hey I can get into kind limited zone.... I hunt some of those units some years depending on what I've scouted preseason.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Yep well said.

 

[87TT]

For every guy that jumps to different units to hit a later season there are probably 10 that buy a tag and don’t hunt it or only hunt for a couple of days and quit. Now back to packing for my trip up North for a late hunt for whitetail.

 

[TheTone]

Also,

Important note, units 48/49 are being developed like crazy and have become the adopted homes of many rich out-of-staters, this is more detrimental than any transient nr hunter who has a extremely low success rate.

I cringed the other day when I saw a guy that has personally blown out a ton of Idaho deer hunting and constantly gripes about management showing off his new real estate development venture. Super awesome watching him plow through a bunch of sage brush and other veg so he can make some money building homes

 

[HuntQuietly]

Possible idea would be to implement a 3 point minimum for mule deer instead of any buck. Keep youth/disabled/senior any buck.

Absolutely not. You need only look at the forkhorn hunts of the Owyhees to see that IDFG has no intention whatsoever to enforce an antler restriction hunt -or really enforce anything in a meaningful way. That means it’s a free for all and people shoot a forkhorn - or a giant buck- whichever presents itself next to the road they are driving down and which window they prefer to shoot out of.

Unless our game commission changes and decides to actually prevent some of the obvious poaching that takes place and the people shooting big bucks during an antler restriction hunt- I would advise against this.

Which is even more saddening with the amount of backcountry and hard to hunt country we possess, these deer are not struggling due to hunters in any sense.

Speak for yourself. My deer herd in Idaho is being hunted to oblivion and the other factors like hard winters, etc is simply holding their head underwater. Mostly due to my above comments regarding lack of enforcement.

 

[IDMuleyKid]

I cringed the other day when I saw a guy that has personally blown out a ton of Idaho deer hunting and constantly gripes about management showing off his new real estate development venture. Super awesome watching him plow through a bunch of sage brush and other veg so he can make some money building homes

If this was a popular IG archery guy, I know exactly what you’re talking about.

 

[TheTone]

If this was a popular IG archery guy, I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Sometimes archery but I think he’s willing to exploit things any way he can. Amazing how many years he has hunted one of the hardest to draw units in the state. I’m sure he just has some really nice landowner friends that “give” him tags

I think you might be thinking of another guy overall though

 

[HuntQuietly]

Most, if not all of the issues plaguing Idaho hunters could be solved with something that looks remotely better than the absolutely abhorrent hunter behavior exhibited by the majority of people out in the field.

The tactics, methods, ethics and general lack of empathy exhibited by the majority of hunters in Idaho is nothing short of appalling.

That applies res and non-res alike. The shit I see through my spotting scope on a daily basis makes me want to puke. You all know who I’m talking about - stop it. Do better.

The reality is aside from the frontier justice system (which is starting to blossom around these parts) the only entity that has any chance of making a dent in awful hunter behavior is IDFG. And they have made it abundantly clear they only care about the money: not herd health, not habitat, not preserving the experience of real hunting and fishing and certainly not any enforcement that doesn’t have a direct tie back to the budget.

Find someone spotlighting deer in your area and report it? “Meh, let us know if you catch them….”

Find someone fishing without a license? “We’re on it! - cha Ching!”

For them, It’s all about license revenue and picking low hanging fruit around boat ramps and WMAs. When the public finally demands they change things and demand fewer opportunities in the hopes of curbing abhorrent hunter behavior- they will have to resort to more “invasive emergencies” to pad budgets and keep the bureaucracy rolling on.

Mark my word.

I’m the meantime- if you see someone doing douchey shit in the field - you’re better off flattening tires than you are calling IDFG cuz they ain’t coming

 

[WeiserBucks]

I’m the meantime- if you see someone doing douchey shit in the field - you’re better off flattening tires than you are calling IDFG cuz they ain’t cocoming.

Advocating vandalism and destruction of property? That's a terrible take on the situation.

 

[HuntQuietly]

As you wish. Why, did you end up needing
4 spares?

If so, I’m gonna go with the statistics and say you probably deserved it.

Maybe you were the guy that chased a bull elk through the landscape in your sxs so long that the elk collapsed and you capped it out the window?

Or maybe you’re the guy that fired 15 times at a deer in a hay field? Yep. 15 shots. 4 across the hood and the rest out the window as you ran it down in the truck? Why’d you only shoot 15 times btw- you run out?

Or, maybe you’re the guy in the sxs that followed the helicopter around getting directions and shot the deer.

Or perhaps you the guy in the helicopter that herded the group of deer from the one unit to the other so the dude in the sxs could shoot it?

Maybe you’re the guy that tore up the hill in your truck - jumped out - left it running - and ran towards me with your rifle (and young son in tow) and nearly shot me because you thought I was the 3x3 on the hillside (that I had been watching) ?

Or maybe you’re just the guy driving around in the middle of a roadless area looking to jump
Something out of the draw so you can shoot it? I mean, it’s the middle of nowhere right? No one walks out here to hunt -and if so, who is going to bust you in an area 4 times the size of Rhode Island?

I know! you’re probably the guy that stopped on the county road and shot the BOAL, from the truck window, on private property, at night, and figured you would get away without consequences.

Oh - I got it- maybe you’re the guy that backed down the remote boat ramp and launched your boat to go duck hunting and you left your truck and trailer on the boat ramp so no one else could launch? (Btw, I’ve been meaning to ask you -how DID that trailer magically unhook and end up in the bottom of the lake?)

If you’re that guy, I’m the guy that was on the overlook watching you do all your stupid shit so if you end up needing 4 new tires and a radiator - no, I won’t be shedding a tear for you.

 

[WeiserBucks]

As you wish. Why, did you end up needing
4 spares?

If so, I’m gonna go with the statistics and say you probably deserved it.

Maybe you were the guy that chased a bull elk through the landscape in your sxs so long that the elk collapsed and you capped it out the window?

Or maybe you’re the guy that fired 15 times at a deer in a hay field? Yep. 15 shots. 4 across the hood and the rest out the window as you ran it down in the truck? Why’d you only shoot 15 times btw- you run out?

Or, maybe you’re the guy in the sxs that followed the helicopter around getting directions and shot the deer.

Or perhaps you the guy in the helicopter that herded the group of deer from the one unit to the other so the dude in the sxs could shoot it?

Maybe you’re the guy that tore up the hill in your truck - jumped out - left it running - and ran towards me with your rifle (and young son in tow) and nearly shot me because you thought I was the 3x3 on the hillside (that I had been watching) ?

Or maybe you’re just the guy driving around in the middle of a roadless area looking to jump
Something out of the draw so you can shoot it? I mean, it’s the middle of nowhere right? No one walks out here to hunt -and if so, who is going to bust you in an area 4 times the size of Rhode Island?

I know! you’re probably the guy that stopped on the county road and shot the BOAL, from the truck window, on private property, at night, and figured you would get away without consequences.

Oh - I got it- maybe you’re the guy that backed down the remote boat ramp and launched your boat to go duck hunting and you left your truck and trailer on the boat ramp so no one else could launch? (Btw, I’ve been meaning to ask you -how DID that trailer magically unhook and end up in the bottom of the lake?)

If you’re that guy, I’m the guy that was on the overlook watching you do all your stupid shit so if you end up needing 4 new tires and a radiator - no, I won’t be shedding a tear for you.

I'm none of the above. Sounds like you've had some very negative experiences the likes of which I've never seen.

 

[Spoonbill]

As you wish. Why, did you end up needing
4 spares?

If so, I’m gonna go with the statistics and say you probably deserved it.

Maybe you were the guy that chased a bull elk through the landscape in your sxs so long that the elk collapsed and you capped it out the window?

Or maybe you’re the guy that fired 15 times at a deer in a hay field? Yep. 15 shots. 4 across the hood and the rest out the window as you ran it down in the truck? Why’d you only shoot 15 times btw- you run out?

Or, maybe you’re the guy in the sxs that followed the helicopter around getting directions and shot the deer.

Or perhaps you the guy in the helicopter that herded the group of deer from the one unit to the other so the dude in the sxs could shoot it?

Maybe you’re the guy that tore up the hill in your truck - jumped out - left it running - and ran towards me with your rifle (and young son in tow) and nearly shot me because you thought I was the 3x3 on the hillside (that I had been watching) ?

Or maybe you’re just the guy driving around in the middle of a roadless area looking to jump
Something out of the draw so you can shoot it? I mean, it’s the middle of nowhere right? No one walks out here to hunt -and if so, who is going to bust you in an area 4 times the size of Rhode Island?

I know! you’re probably the guy that stopped on the county road and shot the BOAL, from the truck window, on private property, at night, and figured you would get away without consequences.

Oh - I got it- maybe you’re the guy that backed down the remote boat ramp and launched your boat to go duck hunting and you left your truck and trailer on the boat ramp so no one else could launch? (Btw, I’ve been meaning to ask you -how DID that trailer magically unhook and end up in the bottom of the lake?)

If you’re that guy, I’m the guy that was on the overlook watching you do all your stupid shit so if you end up needing 4 new tires and a radiator - no, I won’t be shedding a tear for you.

In response to the helicopter, they have tail numbers and if you had a phone scope and recorded it, fish and game or the FAA may be interested as it is A. Easy to see who was doing it and B. The helicopter could be siezed and if your theory is correct, would be a big pay day for fish and game.

I have seen 4wheelers down closed roads and sxs where they aren’t supposed to be, I guess requiring license plates the same size as we have on our vehicles would help mitigate that. Unless we add more fish and game officers then enforcement will always be weak as they can’t be everywhere all the time.

 

[IDMuleyKid]

Absolutely not. You need only look at the forkhorn hunts of the Owyhees to see that IDFG has no intention whatsoever to enforce an antler restriction hunt -or really enforce anything in a meaningful way. That means it’s a free for all and people shoot a forkhorn - or a giant buck- whichever presents itself next to the road they are driving down and which window they prefer to shoot out of.

Unless our game commission changes and decides to actually prevent some of the obvious poaching that takes place and the people shooting big bucks during an antler restriction hunt- I would advise against this.




Speak for yourself. My deer herd in Idaho is being hunted to oblivion and the other factors like hard winters, etc is simply holding their head underwater. Mostly due to my above comments regarding lack of enforcemen

As you wish. Why, did you end up needing
4 spares?

If so, I’m gonna go with the statistics and say you probably deserved it.

Maybe you were the guy that chased a bull elk through the landscape in your sxs so long that the elk collapsed and you capped it out the window?

Or maybe you’re the guy that fired 15 times at a deer in a hay field? Yep. 15 shots. 4 across the hood and the rest out the window as you ran it down in the truck? Why’d you only shoot 15 times btw- you run out?

Or, maybe you’re the guy in the sxs that followed the helicopter around getting directions and shot the deer.

Or perhaps you the guy in the helicopter that herded the group of deer from the one unit to the other so the dude in the sxs could shoot it?

Maybe you’re the guy that tore up the hill in your truck - jumped out - left it running - and ran towards me with your rifle (and young son in tow) and nearly shot me because you thought I was the 3x3 on the hillside (that I had been watching) ?

Or maybe you’re just the guy driving around in the middle of a roadless area looking to jump
Something out of the draw so you can shoot it? I mean, it’s the middle of nowhere right? No one walks out here to hunt -and if so, who is going to bust you in an area 4 times the size of Rhode Island?

I know! you’re probably the guy that stopped on the county road and shot the BOAL, from the truck window, on private property, at night, and figured you would get away without consequences.

Oh - I got it- maybe you’re the guy that backed down the remote boat ramp and launched your boat to go duck hunting and you left your truck and trailer on the boat ramp so no one else could launch? (Btw, I’ve been meaning to ask you -how DID that trailer magically unhook and end up in the bottom of the lake?)

If you’re that guy, I’m the guy that was on the overlook watching you do all your stupid shit so if you end up needing 4 new tires and a radiator - no, I won’t be shedding a tear for you.

You’re unhinged dude, go get some fresh mountain air.