Property owner takes trail cam

[HornPorn]

Looks to me like you got caught tresspassing. Depending on how long he has owned this land adjoining public (sounds like a PITA), you may be the first or the 100th hunter on that public land to infringe upon his rights who he has had to deal with. From the looks of his letter, this is not his first rodeo. He doesn't know if you are a 15 yr old kid or some 3 time convicted felon who just got out of the pen.

How would you feel if you found someone in your car, or in your home when you come back from work? How about someone making out with your girlfriend? That's how a landowner feels when people tresspass on their property. It his, and he should be able to own it without other people infringing on his rights. Keep that in mind when you talk to him.

One more tip for you since you said you are young, most landowners who have a hay/ag field are going to also have a treeline around it. The fence might run inside of the trees, but that is only to keep livestock in the field/out of the timber, and is not the actual property line.

 

[FairbanksFlies]

I agree that a conversation is in order, but it seems pretty cut-and-dried to me. Either the camera was on one side of the line or the other. If it was on private property, then an apology is in order, and the same is true if it was on public land, just from the other party. Public land isn't private just because it borders private land, and there's no law against taking pictures from a patch of ground that you're allowed to be on. A landowner who treats public land like his own is no better than the poacher in the reverse situation.

 

[Bighorner]

I agree that a conversation is in order, but it seems pretty cut-and-dried to me. Either the camera was on one side of the line or the other. If it was on private property, then an apology is in order, and the same is true if it was on public land, just from the other party. Public land isn't private just because it borders private land, and there's no law against taking pictures from a patch of ground that you're allowed to be on. A landowner who treats public land like his own is no better than the poacher in the reverse situation.

Well said.

 

[WCB]

The question is if cameras are part of the hunt, if they are part of the hunt, then it would be hunting on property without permission.


I don't see it as it is, but I wouldn't have thought of an arrow that ends up on a different property being trespassing either.

So if I set up a trail camera and in the background you can happen to see a private piece of property I am trespassing? Am I allowed to look over the fence or scout the field to see where the deer are leaving? Also, as I stated above about leaving cameras...depends on the states laws. There is also a difference even in a C.O. writing a ticket and it actually holding up or being correct.

Also, I am surprised how many guys on here believe just because the guy owns the land he knows exactly where the line is. I have had a bunch of interactions with ranchers and land owners that were WAY off on there belief of where "their" land was or even how many acres that parcel was.

Again, give the guy a call and have your "evidence" in line of why you believed you were on public. Admit if proven wrong. Hell I got screamed at one time for just being on the side of the road on the phone. Farmer thought I had just come out of his tree row from hunting. When I explained to him what I was doing and had a conversation turned into access for a thousand plus acres and him giving us vegetables out of his garden when we stopped by the next day to visit.

 

[Gunnersdad49]

I would call, as mentioned above. I would also plan on an apology if there is any boundary violation on your part. He seems willing to return the camera, and if it is on his property that is generous. He may also be dealing with other poaching or property crimes that you are unaware of.

The suggestion of a meeting between you, the conservation officer or LEO and the landowner might end up a good bet. Heck, I've seen situations like this end up in a friendship that benefited both parties.

 

[Lowg08]

I wouldn’t bet on him knowing his lines. I deal with property owners in my line of work all the time. They most of the time vaguely know what they own. OnX will actually be more accurate. It’s what all law enforcement uses here where I live

 

[Lee_R]

Looks to me like you got caught tresspassing. Depending on how long he has owned this land adjoining public (sounds like a PITA), you may be the first or the 100th hunter on that public land to infringe upon his rights who he has had to deal with. From the looks of his letter, this is not his first rodeo. He doesn't know if you are a 15 yr old kid or some 3 time convicted felon who just got out of the pen.

How would you feel if you found someone in your car, or in your home when you come back from work? How about someone making out with your girlfriend? That's how a landowner feels when people tresspass on their property. It his, and he should be able to own it without other people infringing on his rights. Keep that in mind when you talk to him.

One more tip for you since you said you are young, most landowners who have a hay/ag field are going to also have a treeline around it. The fence might run inside of the trees, but that is only to keep livestock in the field/out of the timber, and is not the actual property line.

If the OP is on public, it's not trespassing. Google does it all the time and you have probably used it if you've ever used Street View in Google maps...i.e. taking pics of private property (residences included) from public property (the street) as they're driving around.

 

[Billy Goat]

So if I set up a trail camera and in the background you can happen to see a private piece of property I am trespassing? Am I allowed to look over the fence or scout the field to see where the deer are leaving? Also, as I stated above about leaving cameras...depends on the states laws. There is also a difference even in a C.O. writing a ticket and it actually holding up or being correct.

Also, I am surprised how many guys on here believe just because the guy owns the land he knows exactly where the line is. I have had a bunch of interactions with ranchers and land owners that were WAY off on there belief of where "their" land was or even how many acres that parcel was.

Again, give the guy a call and have your "evidence" in line of why you believed you were on public. Admit if proven wrong. Hell I got screamed at one time for just being on the side of the road on the phone. Farmer thought I had just come out of his tree row from hunting. When I explained to him what I was doing and had a conversation turned into access for a thousand plus acres and him giving us vegetables out of his garden when we stopped by the next day to visit.

This is all getting out there, but I'm saying if it's a property line that the tree is on, and your camera is on that tree, and facing 100% onto private property, taking pictures on the private, and you are taking pictures for the purpose of hunting, it could be considered part of the hunt.


Yes you are correct that a C.O. can write a ticket on his interpretation and then the judge can decide on the actual interpretation.


I think most people know their property lines better than others. I know I do, I also know that the gis hasn't had the lines correct on my properties before as well. I think out west the apps are a lot more accurate than in the east.


Just a lot of information missing, seems the op decided to do the right thing and contact the landowner.

 

[awasome]

This is all getting out there, but I'm saying if it's a property line that the tree is on, and your camera is on that tree, and facing 100% onto private property, taking pictures on the private, and you are taking pictures for the purpose of hunting, it could be considered part of the hunt.


Yes you are correct that a C.O. can write a ticket on his interpretation and then the judge can decide on the actual interpretation.


I think most people know their property lines better than others. I know I do, I also know that the gis hasn't had the lines correct on my properties before as well. I think out west the apps are a lot more accurate than in the east.


Just a lot of information missing, seems the op decided to do the right thing and contact the landowner.

The camera maybe considered part of the hunt. However if it is on public land, pointed at private land it is still not tresspassing. You can take video and photographs of anything in view while on public property, this is how paparazzi and Youtube 1st amendment auditors get their content.

 

[Bighorner]

It is important know that your phone app is only as good as your county GIS placement of legal descriptions, and then only as good as flat description can be placed on sphere. There are errors in each step. A property corner is infinitely small and a property line doesn't have a width. In cases where a few feet are called into question you are asking for a higher level of precision than the app, or your phone GPS for that matter can provide. At the end of the day a property line is nailed down when the controlling corners are found and not by a well intentioned lined on aerial image or an actual survey. There is a vast spectrum of peoples understanding of where there property line exist. Almost everyone has a pretty good idea but not always.

With that said, the apps are great tools for people acting in good faith with common sense.

 

[Billy Goat]

The camera maybe considered part of the hunt. However if it is on public land, pointed at private land it is still not tresspassing. You can take video and photographs of anything in view while on public property, this is how paparazzi and Youtube 1st amendment auditors get their content.

There's lots of things that are legal to do when not hunting.

I'm on the side of it not being trespassing, but I can see also how it could be considered. It's a device you are hanging and utilizing only on what would be private property.


I know you can take pictures on private property, that's not exactly what the point is. I can shine a light out across my fields anytime without a firearm in the vehicle, I do it with a firearm in the vehicle and it's spot lighting. Rules change when you are hunting, that's a state by state thing tho with the lighting.


Many similar examples of open carry in states. It's legal to carry a pistol until you are bowhunting, then it's being in possession of a firearm while bowhunting. Not anything of concern in the west, that's mostly encouraged, but not always the case in the east.

 

[Werty]

great first post! I'm betting the property owner knows his lines better than onyx. dont be such a vag,call and talk to him

My brother used be a surveyor , on average most landowners don't know the legal boundaries to there property (20 acres and above).

 

[wapitibob]

If the camera was on the public side of a fence, and onx showed it as public, I'd have a deputy accompany me to the landowners residence.

 

[Billy Goat]

Here's a question I have wondered. If a tree is on a property line, do you need permission from both landowners to hunt from it?


Seems to me you need permission from both landowners, they both own it. I can't cut the tree down, or have a logger take it since it's on the line, even if I own the woodlot and the adjoining owner only has field.

Again, I think this is something that is more of an eastern thing. We have fencelines that are old, like over 100 years old, grown up in trees because nobody removed the brush. Both landowners technically own the tree, unless it's found that the fenceline wasn't actually straight between two marked points (usually labeled as big white oak tree, but last survey was 1896).

 

[Panhandler80]

If you didn’t step foot on his property he stole your property. You can point camera any direction you want. Just call. Heck, Play your cards right and maybe gain some access next year

 

[Panhandler80]

Here's a question I have wondered. If a tree is on a property line, do you need permission from both landowners to hunt from it?


Seems to me you need permission from both landowners, they both own it. I can't cut the tree down, or have a logger take it since it's on the line, even if I own the woodlot and the adjoining owner only has field.

Again, I think this is something that is more of an eastern thing. We have fencelines that are old, like over 100 years old, grown up in trees because nobody removed the brush. Both landowners technically own the tree, unless it's found that the fenceline wasn't actually straight between two marked points (usually labeled as big white oak tree, but last survey was 1896).

I think It comes who wants Tree Gone The Most, or kept the most, and who is willing To pay for a survey to prove hopefully that he has ownership of tree. It gets pretty damn arbitrary.

Post survey I guess whoever has the majority of the trunk can hunt from it so long as your projectile doesn’t land on the neighbors property.

 

[gelton]

Curious if this is going to be one of those threads where the OP posts an interesting topic and never shows back up to tell us the ending of the story.

@ClarkHurst how did it turn out?

 

[ClarkHurst]

I didn’t have phone service most of the day and it’s getting late here now. Probably will call the guy tomorrow. I’ve done some more checking on the lines and it looks like I was in the wrong so hopefully the guy is reasonable and realizes it was an honest mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lowg08]

I didn’t have phone service most of the day and it’s getting late here now. Probably will call the guy tomorrow. I’ve done some more checking on the lines and it looks like I was in the wrong so hopefully the guy is reasonable and realizes it was an honest mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just like mentioned before. Be humble. Extremely apologetic. You should be good to go. Admission and apologies go a long ways sometimes.

 

[rlmmarine]

I didn’t have phone service most of the day and it’s getting late here now. Probably will call the guy tomorrow. I’ve done some more checking on the lines and it looks like I was in the wrong so hopefully the guy is reasonable and realizes it was an honest mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Own up to it but while your talking with him he may need help around the property getting the hay in ect. Ask if you can help him around the property for permission to hunt. Ive asked and gotten permission about 30 percent of the time. Its definitely worth asking.