Project 2025 and public lands and environment

[Ozarkansas]

fyi...

Forest Service fires 3,400 people

lol I just came across that same article after commenting! That didn’t take long. But it’s okay, we can just go through the rehiring process all over again if we determine that those positions were actually important, in the name of “governmental efficiency”

@CJ19 it feels like any source that lines up with your viewpoint (“40% of conservation funding goes to transgenders”) you take at face value, and any source that doesn’t (“cuts are already occurring to our public lands management departments and will likely impact management”) you go over with a fine tooth comb and rationalize away as justified. You say I have TDS and this isn’t happening yet. I show that it is. You respond with “well then the sources saying it is happening are probably not trustworthy, but if they’re correct then I think it’s good that it’s happening.” That’s a pretty massive goalpost shift.

 

[Ozarkansas]

This place is full of big government fags

Ah the ole “nobody agrees with me so I’m going to try to get the thread locked” approach

 

[CJ19]

That's just one source. If you bother to cross-check, you'll see that the Politico article is one of several sources confirming the same.

i believe you. I am 100% certain the steps in the article happened because i saw similar articles else where. Plus, that is the standard procedure for reducing work force within public employee union workforces. like what most people are saying, you are missing the point. My point was politico was receiving US AID money to spread an internal message in many cases.

"@CJ19 it feels like any source that lines up with your viewpoint (“40% of conservation funding goes to transgenders”) you take at face value, and any source that doesn’t (“cuts are already occurring to our public lands management departments and will likely impact management”) you go over with a fine tooth comb and rationalize away as justified. You say I have TDS and this isn’t happening yet. I show that it is. You respond with “well then the sources saying it is happening are probably not trustworthy, but if they’re correct then I think it’s good that it’s happening.” That’s a pretty massive goalpost shift."

You really like to fixate the transgender thing. i say DEI because that is what i am referring to. I am not really concerned with one aspect or another within DEI. The entire DEI concept was cancer destroying every government agency. The entire agency was required to work within a DEI plan that was supposed to take DEI into account when making every decision. I am sorry to tell you that you gas lighting people into pretending all this stuff did not happen is not going to win anyone over. As far as I am concerned, what I am seeing is that people in the agency did not see a problem. Which tells me these cuts are needed and might need to be deeper at all these agency including the forest service.

 

[CJ19]

This place is full of big government ----------------

this really is not helpful. people want to talk about stuff. let them talk.

 

[PLhunter]

you guys are not listening to people. those are not what anyone wants cut or will be cut. waste fraud and abuse. are you suggesting there is waste fraud or abuse in those items?

They are using a mallet to perform brain surgery. There is no court or in depth analysis to see if it’s waste fraud or abuse. Funding is being cut first and questions asked later, and honestly the evaluation is done with shocking incompetence. They have a catchy slogan but don’t trust them to stick to it. Again, the consumer protection agency had a positive roi and they cut it without demonstrating waste fraud or abuse. It was just investigating his companies and he didn’t like it.

 

[Balderdash]

They shout down and go to the logical fallacy playbook. Ignore it and let’s just talk about what can be done with a reduced judiciary to stop or slow it when it comes. One option will have to be convincing fellow hunters to mobilize and to convince them that corporations and billionaires don’t actually have their best interest in mind when it comes to wildlife and access and stopping them is more important than hurting people you were convinced to hate. But that’s just one thing that has to happen.

Its an uphill battle for sure. I've learned through the years that the public land hunter is increasingly becoming an endangered species. More and more, hunting takes place on pay for play ground, and those who can afford to partake in and are happy with this paradigm are at the very least not concerned at the prospect of having more of it via the sale of public lands.

Then there's the non hunting users and suporters of public land who aren't likely to reach across the isle to work with hunters and gun owners to form a unified front for the protection of wide open spaces that are open to the public.

I don't have a lot of answers as to where we go from here. Certainly glad to read about what's going on and about what others are doing to save a way of life that we hold very dear. In the nearterm, I'll be looking for opportunities to donate to and volunteer for groups like RMEF.

 

[PLhunter]

The problem is truly defining a DEI hire or what gets accused of being a DEI hire when that gets thrown around. A lot of people make accusations of a DEI hire but the person is absurdly qualified compared the next person who receives no audit because they don’t look “DEI”.

 

[CJ19]

Its an uphill battle for sure. I've learned through the years that the public land hunter is increasingly becoming an endangered species. More and more, hunting takes place on pay for play ground, and those who can afford to partake in and are happy with this paradigm are at the very least not concerned at the prospect of having more of it via the sale of public lands.

Then there's the non hunting users and suporters of public land who aren't likely to reach across the isle to work with hunters and gun owners to form a unified front for the protection of wide open spaces that are open to the public.

I don't have a lot of answers as to where we go from here. Certainly glad to read about what's going on and about what others are doing to save a way of life that we hold very dear. In the nearterm, I'll be looking for opportunities to donate to and volunteer for groups like RMEF.

public land hunters are not endangered. every person here is a public land hunter.

 

[PLhunter]

Also, this has been kept open for a record amount of time. Keep up the good work all who are ignoring those not providing thoughtful discourse.

 

[PLhunter]

Theres alot here who think they wil be the next john dutton.

Watching my lawyer California neighbor slowly transform from floral pattern beach dude to Jackson hole chic cowboy clothes as the seasons ticked on was HILARIOUS. I was like dude, you bought some chickens and like 4 mini goats, chill.

 

[CJ19]

I gotta step out. @chanson_roland and @JohnB brought up some stuff i did not know. I am glad they did. I will be keeping an eye on the conservation stuff because I think we need cuts. I know people want precision in doing so but the system is not set up for it. I am will contact elected official when that stuff happens in spots I do not think it should be.

 

[TaperPin]

I gotta step out. @chanson_roland and @JohnB brought up some stuff i did not know. I am glad they did. I will be keeping an eye on the conservation stuff because I think we need cuts. I know people want precision in doing so but the system is not set up for it. I am will contact elected official when that stuff happens in spots I do not think it should be.

If someone doesn’t understand a work group well enough to know what to cut specifically, you’re just swinging the bat blindfolded. To simplify cuts by saying it’s too hard is ridiculous. Professional management of complex systems is not rocket science.

 

[Loo.wii]

you guys are not listening to people. those are not what anyone wants cut or will be cut. waste fraud and abuse. are you suggesting there is waste fraud or abuse in those items?

No im pointing out that im just seeing a broad reduction of RnD funding and grants for those in the field. most of the money comes in the form of grants and that is already being messed with. Those grants are what pay for equipment, and salaries. I wouldnt call compsci gants fraud, waste or abuse but some dont share my opinion.

 

[Balderdash]

public land hunters are not endangered. every person here is a public land hunter.

Maybe so on RS? But I'm talking broad trends, not niche groups.

Where I live the "big north woods" public land hunting used to have strong traditions with huge camps and a lot of fellowship; its about shriveled up now. With wolves, the hunting has been decimated. Guys either quit going or, if they could afford it, bought/leased private ground in areas without predators.

I see the same thing happening in parts of the west were I hunted many times over a lot of years. The big annual camps are gone in many areas, and I run into more and more guys who hire outfitters, lease a ranch, or otherwise pay for access in some way. Not trying to derride the guys who pay to get on ground, just pointing out that the dynamics of hunting are evolving, and that a lot of hunters no longer have as much of a vested interest in what happens on public ground as far as hunting opportunities.

 

[Loo.wii]

right so what we have in this thread is nothing but a TDS induced cryfest at the moment. there is bloat that needs cut. when things get this bloated deep cuts are necessary. Do not set up systems that make the small cuts virtually impossible if you don't want it to get to the point deep cuts are needed. And in this TDS cryfest, we have the usual "OMG what if they cut this program or that program". None of that has happened. So if it does we will have to discuss getting the ones American's need back in.

I love/hate the use of term TDS. I think its a good thing to be able to call out a leader on their BS or lack of. theres a camp that believes that their guy cant be wrong, and thats a slippy slope. That being said I don't disagree that there should be cuts but its gonna hurt everyone because in a way a good portion of gov employees and funding was welfare for the employees and contracts that benefited from them.

 

[PLhunter]

You really like to fixate the transgender thing. i say DEI because that is what i am referring to.

I think it’s because it was referenced multiple times in your example of the justice40 initiative. Choosing that instead of the other aspects like having to evaluate whether or not the wastewater treatment plant is being built next to poorer people unjustly. Which is another aspect of it that could have been brought up but bathrooms and sex changes were selected. I think that is why it’s referenced.

 

[Loo.wii]

lol I just came across that same article after commenting! That didn’t take long. But it’s okay, we can just go through the rehiring process all over again if we determine that those positions were actually important, in the name of “governmental efficiency”

@CJ19 it feels like any source that lines up with your viewpoint (“40% of conservation funding goes to transgenders”) you take at face value, and any source that doesn’t (“cuts are already occurring to our public lands management departments and will likely impact management”) you go over with a fine tooth comb and rationalize away as justified. You say I have TDS and this isn’t happening yet. I show that it is. You respond with “well then the sources saying it is happening are probably not trustworthy, but if they’re correct then I think it’s good that it’s happening.” That’s a pretty massive goalpost shift.

Some people are alergic to good faith discussions.

 

[Loo.wii]

public land hunters are not endangered. every person here is a public land hunter.

Polar bears aren't endangered I saw a polar bear in a zoo.....

 

[Gila]

You don’t burn the house down to fix a broken window. When a project is defunded it is dead. RIP

 

[idi1796]

As someone who has spent an unhealthy number of hours volunteering for hunting/angling/conservation NGO’s, I feel like it is important (as previously mentioned by some) to highlight how important organizations like RMEF, DU, TRCP, NWTF, BHA, Delta, Wild Sheep, OHA (Oregon Hunters Association) etc are in protecting (they are the tip of the spear behind the scenes with any administration), expanding, and enhancing our experiences on our public lands, especially in an uncertain time like the present. I am a member of many of these groups. Am I in lock step with every position each one takes….no. But I also realize that no organization/politician/administration will ever represent me 100% of the time. And that’s okay. That’s why I, and so many other volunteers get involved and try to make sure we do right by the resource. So, all that to say, get involved (which I’m sure many already are), support these groups (they do more for your interest than you might realize), and engage (demand from your representatives that conservation be a priority). Talk to staff at some of these orgs and my guess is that the chaos going on right now at the federal level is doing little to advance positive change for the things many of us care about in the hunting/angling/conservation space.