Project 2025 and public lands and environment

[ScreamingPotato]

Where is the evidence of that in the cuts? That’s what I’m wanting to see. It was supposed to be super geniuses using advanced methods to find waste, fraud, and abuse. Instead it seems ham fisted and arbitrary. I don’t share the faith in Elon doing this for our betterment, nor being correct in his waste fraud and abuse assessments.

There's no evidence in all the sky is falling rhetoric yall are speculating on either, an article speculating here or there. It's literally all speculation and fearmongering right now. Elon is just managing things like he would be managing a private company, no matter where you cut somebody is gonna be screaming about it so it's not avoidable, but we can't keep spending the public's money just to keep people from complaining.

 

[CJ19]

This gets tossed out a lot. Every firing I’ve seen reversed by union litigation was a direct result of a supervisor(s) not following policy and/or labor law.

great here we go debating whether the union has role in labor laws and firings at public agencies. good lord.

 

[PLhunter]

Either way, I have partially derailed this thread by going into other things other than the topic. I'm here to fight for public lands and conservation and I know where I stand at this point. I am just hoping others are willing to stand in the same court to keep public lands public and make sure our wildlife are getting the management that they deserve.

Well the gutting and starving of federal workforces and agencies into designed failure and their subsequent privatization is a part of project 2025. So this is 100% relevant to the topic.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

Well the gutting and starving of federal workforces and agencies into designed failure and their subsequent privatization is a part of project 2025. So this is 100% relevant to the topic.

lmfao could you be more dramatic?

 

[PLhunter]

great here we go debating whether the union has role in labor laws and firings at public agencies. good lord.

You were the first person to bring up the union word man…. You have a knack for bringing up topics then being shocked and upset when someone else responds to said topic.

 

[PLhunter]

lmfao could you be more dramatic?

It’s in the text. It’s the topic. It’s been spoken about by people now in positions of power. This is actual gaslighting.

Also, managing like a private company. The United States government is not a corp for good reason. It doesn’t share the same goals or mandate. His twitter efficiencies have cut the profit ratio. Meaning it’s less workforce but also by the metric used for private corps (net profit) it’s also far less efficient. I wouldn’t anoint him as efficiency genius so quickly,

 

[CJ19]

You were the first person to bring up the union word man…

i dont think you even know what you are talking about. Jsnyder responsed to a post i made about the union and their role in keep people around. I have been through this exact process with this exact union years ago. I know exactly what the federal employees we are talking about are going through. Wait until employees hired on the same date are drawing straws to see who get to keep the last remaining position.

 

[PLhunter]

Now there is something I can get behind!

Amen!!

 

[Jason Snyder]

great here we go debating whether the union has role in labor laws and firings at public agencies. good lord.

Obviously I misunderstood the intent of your post.

Good Lord.

 

[CJ19]

Obviously I misunderstood the intent of your post.

Good Lord.

i was pretty vague. i think the post you were referencing was just me saying the union ends up having a say in the way and who get terminated first via the contract. seniority etc etc. at least that how it worked with my org when it happened if i remember correctly. i guess the dig a buzz wasnt necessary but he is abrasive its hard not to.

 

[D S 319]

14 pages and no solutions? DOGE would not appreciate the efficiency of this thread.

 

[PLhunter]

14 pages and no solutions? DOGE would not appreciate the efficiency of this thread.

you’d think solving it on the internet would make it so efficient. Apparently, remote debating reduces efficiency.

It’s a success for me if just a few handfuls of folks start watching what’s being cut and thinking even a little critically about it, if someone noodles at what point they need to be ready to say no to the powers that be, and if they watch a bit closer to whether they are tangibly benefitting from this at all.

 

[grainhog]

I've seen accusations of "fear mongering" and "what-if-isms" in this thread apparently under the pretense that we should wait until things are really bad to try to prevent bad things from happening in a reactionary way. This is a bad approach.

These poorly conceived firings of large numbers of probationary staff members weaken the land management agencies. Budgets for field work, in the realms of both extractive resource use and recreation alike, were already chronically low, the staff badly underpaid, and the backlog impossible to eliminate. The Mike Lee's of the world absolutely want to promote an exaggerated image of failure of Federal agencies to manage, to stimulate public support for transfer of federal public land to states and then ultimately to private ownership.

Speaking of Mike Lee, through a joint resolution, the Montana state legislature is now proposing to support Utah's crusade to transfer 18.5 million acres of federal land to states. They see an opportunity, and they're showing you with their actions what they hope to achieve. This isn't "what if," it's "what is."

As discussed earlier, you will not have a ticket to the auction when this ground is sold and it will never be transferred back. We need to acknowledge what's happening before our eyes and devise a strategic resistance now.

 

[Poser]

There's no evidence in all the sky is falling rhetoric yall are speculating on either, an article speculating here or there. It's literally all speculation and fearmongering right now. Elon is just managing things like he would be managing a private company, no matter where you cut somebody is gonna be screaming about it so it's not avoidable, but we can't keep spending the public's money just to keep people from complaining.

So, what you're effectively saying is, "don't worry about anything until its a problem. Nevermind the accidental firing of DOE employees critical to managing the nation's nuclear arsenals. Nevermind that DOGE has posted classified documents on its on website (where it also promotes Elon's self interest for his company X). Elon has got this, ya'll -he's a an unelected, non-senate confirmed, half foreign national billionaire who lacks security clearance and has a fleet of 19-21 year olds investigating government fraud. He must know what he's doing, he's friends with Trump, runs some big companies, clearly has the nation's best interest in mind when making recommendations and what is good for his own self interest must also be good for Americans. and, if I'm wrong, what's the worst thing that can happen?"

 

[Ozarkansas]

To the guys saying “wait and see” in this thread, I have a few questions:

-Do you ever have criticism for liberal politicians based on what they have said they would do or appear to be doing? Or do you only criticize them once you’ve actually felt the negative consequences of them doing something you disagree with?

-what level of criticism of Trump do you tolerate before it becomes “TDS”? If Harris had won would you hold the same opinion of those who criticize her?

-if we assume Musk is a rare good billionaire with no conflict of interest and the best intentions, why should we still not speak up if we see him cutting something we value? Neither he nor Trump are experts on public lands or hunting, they will rely to a degree on public feedback in some of these areas so they can understand the value.

 

[CJ19]

To the guys saying “wait and see” in this thread, I have a few of questions:

-Do you ever have criticism for liberal politicians based on what they have said they would do or appear to be doing? Or do you only criticize them once you’ve actually felt the negative consequences of them doing something you disagree with?

-what level of criticism of Trump do you tolerate before it becomes “TDS”? If Harris had won would you hold the same opinion of those who criticize her?

-if we assume Musk is a rare good billionaire with no conflict of interest and the best intentions, why should we still not speak up if we see him cutting something we value? Neither he nor Trump are experts on public lands or hunting, they will rely to a degree on public feedback in some of these areas so they can understand the value.

for every 1 good post in this thread about actual conservation related cuts, there is about 7 TDS induced posts about utter nonsense. doge is auditing the IRS now. whats next. you're going to tell me the IRS is above audits and cuts. we need 100,000 new irs agents to audit deposits from people like you and i above 600$?

 

[Poser]

for every 1 good post in this thread about actual conservation related cuts, there is about 7 TDS induced posts about utter nonsense. doge is auditing the IRS now. whats next. you're going to tell me the IRS is above audits and cuts. we need 100,000 new irs agents to audit deposits from people like you and i above 600$?

So…. Your answer to his questions is “no. What applies to me, does jot apply to thee” ?

 

[CJ19]

So…. Your answer to his questions is “no. What applies to me, does jot apply to thee” ?

i guess i am not understanding what you are referring to. is this something about doge and musk?

 

[Poser]

i guess i am not understanding what you are referring to. is this something about doge and musk?

@Ozarkansas asked 3 poignant questions. You responded with, what was clearly a deflection -a question about IRS audits. Maybe you responded to the wrong post? If so, my apologies.

I am curious to read various replies to his 3 questions, however.

 

[Ozarkansas]

for every 1 good post in this thread about actual conservation related cuts, there is about 7 TDS induced posts about utter nonsense. doge is auditing the IRS now. whats next. you're going to tell me the IRS is above audits and cuts. we need 100,000 new irs agents to audit deposits from people like you and i above 600$?

That doesn’t answer my questions.

Look, I’m not saying you’re being disingenuous. But unless you can tell me that you apply the same standards to discussions about liberal and conservative politicians, it certainly feels disingenuous to hear “it’s not happening, don’t worry unless it does. But if it is happening, Biden did worse and it’s actually a good thing”.

And regarding the TDS thing, I read Trump’s MAHA EO and generally really like what I saw in it. I also like that his State Department cancelled the Biden-era order for Armored Teslas. That’s two things just from reading the news this morning. I’m perfectly willing to acknowledge when Trump does good stuff, or when my fears don’t come to fruition.
I know some crazy liberals who definitely suffer from TDS, but I don’t see how anyone on this thread does.