Pro Shop Expectations

[Btaylor]

@dkime @OR Archer been thinking on this thread and had this question pop in my mind. Have you ever seen a shop setup a recurring service plan if you will? Fixed fee per month that buys tuning/light maint. and some amount of range time, sold on an annual basis.

 

[OR Archer]

@dkime @OR Archer been thinking on this thread and had this question pop in my mind. Have you ever seen a shop setup a recurring service plan if you will? Fixed fee per month that buys tuning/light maint. and some amount of range time, sold on an annual basis.

Range time yes. Lots of shops offer monthly passes, some with 24hr key card range access. I’ve not heard or seen this done with service though. Like what was previously stated 99% of the customer base are not that involved with their equipment to even utilize something like that.

 

[Btaylor]

Range time yes. Lots of shops offer monthly passes, some with 24hr key card range access. I’ve not heard or seen this done with service though. Like what was previously stated 99% of the customer base are not that involved with their equipment to even utilize something like that.

Yeah I have seen plenty of shops with range time deals but never knew of one that packaged service in with it.

 

[dkime]

Yeah I have seen plenty of shops with range time deals but never knew of one that packaged service in with it.

The only thing I have seen like this (And its probably a better deal) is joining a dedicated archery club. That was a big thing back in michigan. These clubs normally have full access to multiple ranges, equipment, and most importantly a whole bunch of grumpy knowledgable old men who have tried just about everything.

 

[GunsAreFun]

The first one I went to didn’t seem to notice I was there. The second was downright rude. The third was amazing and had an old fashioned customer service approach. Needless to say, that’s who gets my money even though it’s almost an hour from my house.

 

[WCB]

Yeah, but when it's a product that 98% of consumers need someone else to work on it I think it's different. Unless you are going to put a screw driver thru the cams, you need a press to put a peep sight in. Archery is just different stuff, takes more equipment to work on. Lots of companies sell direct with trad bow stuff, you really only need a stringer, bow square, and an arrow saw.



I suspect just the liability is going to keep most companies from going direct.

I agree with you on the service part...just in the original thought in general of shops getting po'd at manufacturers selling direct. Realistically I would have to believe if buying direct was a couple hundred bucks more it would really be a non issues considering most guys go in to test out bows or need direction anyways.

Also, I would assume in the equation that the manufactures wouldn't sell their new bows and give the dealers a year of exclusivity.

But yes in general the service deal would be something to work with.

 

[Rob5589]

Don't forget customers can be major pita's and cheap. A good tech should get 40+ dollars an hour. But most people aren't will to pay for 4-5 hours of tuning. People expect to receive free time because they bought a bow.

 

[sndmn11]

How in the world is it taking hours to tune a bow?

 

[Billy Goat]

How in the world is it taking hours to tune a bow?

There's some that really suck. I'd expect if it's a bow the shop carries they can knock it out in an hour, but that's been one of the big advancements recently is how easy they are to tune.

Except hoyt, yoke tuning is quick, assuming you don't need to shim cams. Now you need to shim cams and use those little $&*@+#* shims that are such a pain in the ass. At least they made a tool.

 

[OR Archer]

There's some that really suck. I'd expect if it's a bow the shop carries they can knock it out in an hour, but that's been one of the big advancements recently is how easy they are to tune.

Except hoyt, yoke tuning is quick, assuming you don't need to shim cams. Now you need to shim cams and use those little $&*@+#* shims that are such a pain in the ass. At least they made a tool.

Still not as bad as the shitty PSE shims.

 

[Billy Goat]

Still not as bad as the shitty PSE shims.

I don't mess with pse much at all.

Do you need to sand them to fit like the elite shims?

 

[OR Archer]

No. They have stacks of paper thin shims. Almost impossible to do while still in the press.

 

[Billy Goat]

That sucks. It's always a pain when you need to stack a couple, let alone multiples.


Then people get nervous when you get the petroleum jelly out.
It does help them stick together, but client might think you getting ready to do something else..

 

[sndmn11]

There's some that really suck. I'd expect if it's a bow the shop carries they can knock it out in an hour, but that's been one of the big advancements recently is how easy they are to tune.

Except hoyt, yoke tuning is quick, assuming you don't need to shim cams. Now you need to shim cams and use those little $&*@+#* shims that are such a pain in the ass. At least they made a tool.

The 5 or so bows we have set up in the last three years all took less than a quiver of arrows to be punching bullet holes. After that it's on the owner to go shoot and practice, then fine tune down the road and use the shop as a resource for doing so, not as the primary source.

 

[Billy Goat]

The 5 or so bows we have set up in the last three years all took less than a quiver of arrows to be punching bullet holes. After that it's on the owner to go shoot and practice, then fine tune down the road and use the shop as a resource for doing so, not as the primary source.

Well most bows I have setup I can have punching a bullet hole on the first shot. There's just a lot more to it than that. Bullet holes are a start.

I figured you were referring to spending time with a client on a range dialing in bareshafts, not just the initial cam lean, centershot, and nock height. I thought the discussion was about a shop helping in the further tuning of a bow. Maybe I was off.

 

[sndmn11]

Well most bows I have setup I can have punching a bullet hole on the first shot. There's just a lot more to it than that. Bullet holes are a start.

I figured you were referring to spending time with a client on a range dialing in bareshafts, not just the initial cam lean, centershot, and nock height. I thought the discussion was about a shop helping in the further tuning of a bow. Maybe I was off.

I kind of was. If you are at bullet holes, tiny adjustments are all it takes to get things perfect from there. The two biggest variables are the shooter and the broadhead from that point. If I'm a shop and someone says "my bare shafts don't hit with my field points at 40 yards. They are scattered all over the target". I'd tell them it's not the bow. If someone told me their broadhead groups were 18" at 60 yards and their field points in the same end were 6" in the bull, but perfect at 40, I'd hand them three other broadheads and tell them to try again. If the same result, we would look at their form for areas of inconsistency, if the broadhead group shrinks I'd watch them smile. Total "shop time" for both scenarios is 1 minute unless shooting lessons are needed.

I think a lot of times people see bows and arrows are mythical creatures and forget they are simply machines. The only mythical creature part is the person shooting it. Think about those times when hours were spent tuning and think about how much of that was spent trying the same thing as before hoping for a different result. Think about the times when someone said they couldn't tune, and you figured out the shooter was doing something bananas.

A good pro shop should be experienced enough to realize that 75%+ of tuning isn't related to the bow and arrow setup.

 

[Billy Goat]

I kind of was. If you are at bullet holes, tiny adjustments are all it takes to get things perfect from there. The two biggest variables are the shooter and the broadhead from that point. If I'm a shop and someone says "my bare shafts don't hit with my field points at 40 yards. They are scattered all over the target". I'd tell them it's not the bow. If someone told me their broadhead groups were 18" at 60 yards and their field points in the same end were 6" in the bull, but perfect at 40, I'd hand them three other broadheads and tell them to try again. If the same result, we would look at their form for areas of inconsistency, if the broadhead group shrinks I'd watch them smile. Total "shop time" for both scenarios is 1 minute unless shooting lessons are needed.

I think a lot of times people see bows and arrows are mythical creatures and forget they are simply machines. The only mythical creature part is the person shooting it. Think about those times when hours were spent tuning and think about how much of that was spent trying the same thing as before hoping for a different result. Think about the times when someone said they couldn't tune, and you figured out the shooter was doing something bananas.

A good pro shop should be experienced enough to realize that 75%+ of tuning isn't related to the bow and arrow setup.

I have had some different experiences. For example a group that goes to 18" @ 60 might not be the fault of the broadhead, but rather the vane. You can take the approach of selling them different broadheads, or vanes that have enough drag for the broadheads they want to shoot. I guess most shops just take the route of telling them to use a mechanical.

I have spent a fair amount of time tuning thru a shooting machine. That takes the human element out, but increases the time it takes. Not everything is set in stone and changing one thing can change multiple things. I also always make sure results are repeatable, so it's a matter of the same thing happening in a follow up group, that takes time as well. I'm not saying this is something that is going to take all day, but yes, sometimes it is a couple hours, especially while working with someone on it.


I do my broadhead tuning at 65 yards, that takes a while just walking back and forth. When you use a shooting machine you need to do it on each arrow. It's faster for me to just shoot it, but many times when I'm playing with something really testing it I'll put it in the machine to remove the loose screw element.

 

[three5x5s]

I wonder if the bow company's will have to go the route of Car company's. Have their own retail shops with service. All look the same, trained and staffed the same. I cant say that the way bow shops are now works well for them or the the consumer.

 

[sndmn11]

I have had some different experiences. For example a group that goes to 18" @ 60 might not be the fault of the broadhead, but rather the vane. You can take the approach of selling them different broadheads, or vanes that have enough drag for the broadheads they want to shoot. I guess most shops just take the route of telling them to use a mechanical.

I have spent a fair amount of time tuning thru a shooting machine. That takes the human element out, but increases the time it takes. Not everything is set in stone and changing one thing can change multiple things. I also always make sure results are repeatable, so it's a matter of the same thing happening in a follow up group, that takes time as well. I'm not saying this is something that is going to take all day, but yes, sometimes it is a couple hours, especially while working with someone on it.


I do my broadhead tuning at 65 yards, that takes a while just walking back and forth. When you use a shooting machine you need to do it on each arrow. It's faster for me to just shoot it, but many times when I'm playing with something really testing it I'll put it in the machine to remove the loose screw element.

Those things are YOU doing them, not a shop and not you with your hand being held by someone at a shop. In your first example, I wouldn't sell them new broadheads, I would give them three of my own that I know fly right and fly easy. If I were to look at their broadhead and look at their vane, it would be pretty evident if they need more vane or not. Gandolf and Merlin are not at work in the world of archery mysticism and magic. There is zero need for a bow shop to spend time fiddling with shooters who want to super duper tune, those types of folks should be doing that on their own. If a shop can't get things shooting bullet holes, as a starting point for the archer to take from there, within 15 minutes of the first arrow a shop is missing out on their purpose. (cam shimming excluded)

 

[Billy Goat]

How in the world is it taking hours to tune a bow?

So which is it, does it not take hours to tune a bow or not?

No it doesn't take hours to get a paper tune usually, however a lot of people aren't touching a bow in any way without a tech there to help them along.