Pro Shop Expectations

[MattB]

I own and operate a small organic farm, I have a day job that pays the bills but I am keenly aware of the market dynamics of restaurants because most farms like me cater to them. I had a few, and they are all out of business.

When covid hit I immediately shifted from focusing on restaurants and wholesale and went customer direct with contactless delivery which flourished. Another thing that has had a big boom is food delivery services in general, but delivery service for fresh produce.

Yes, restaurants that were able to make it through this did take advantage of delivery services, but to suggest that they flourished is a bad take. They, like bars, even in the Republic of Texas who had some of the most lax "laws" (really edicts but who is counting) in the nation, took it where the sun don't shine, bigly.

It's just not accurate to suggest that restaurants that pivoted benefited from covid...they got screwed, all of em'.

I am not suggesting that all benefited, but we had articles in local papers how some local restaurants had their best years ever from a profitability perspective due to pivoting their business model to optimize around the market conditions brougt on by COVID (and their competition not doing so).

One local restaurant even took to delivering the meat/produce they would ordinarily prepare for their guests in pre-packaged to go boxes. I do not know how this specfic restaurant did from a P&L perspective, but it highlights how some businesses changed their business models to meet market conditions.

Home — The Basin

www.thebasin.com

 

[MattB]

Article on one local example of success due to a business model pivot during COVID. They are not the only one.

'"When this whole thing hit, we were just about ready to open as a regular, old restaurant. … The initial response was, ‘Oh, my God, this is a disaster,'” Paluska said."'

But after a change to a take-out model:

'"We’re actually over 100% of our historical high-water marks,” Paluska said."'

So, not "all of em'".

 

[Zac]

Wow looks like this thread went way off the rails. Anyhow I don't know if this is an expectation, or more of something I wish shops would address. I get that they can only offer a paper tune at around 6 feet for most people. However I would prefer the shops then tell the customer that they need to do some sort of bare shaft, walk back, or broad head tune. I think the average guy leaving a shop with a bow set up believes they have perfect arrow flight because they got a nice hole at a few feet.

 

[Billy Goat]

Article on one local example of success due to a business model pivot during COVID. They are not the only one.

'"When this whole thing hit, we were just about ready to open as a regular, old restaurant. … The initial response was, ‘Oh, my God, this is a disaster,'” Paluska said."'

But after a change to a take-out model:

'"We’re actually over 100% of our historical high-water marks,” Paluska said."'

So, not "all of em'".

I'm sure there's context missing here, however the two quoted areas don't really jive.

It says we were getting ready to open as a regular restaurant, then it says they were over any historical marks. If they hadn't been open before, how were they over 100% of their marks?


A few places around here did really well. Pizza places especially. It was really hard on bars. Not much point in selling drinks to go, tho they made it so you could.


If you are in a college town, and the university closed and sent students home, I'm not sure how you pivot your business to cater to a customer that is no longer there.


I mean the market shrank, a few were able to capitalize, largely smaller restaurants that it was easier to transition with. Many lost everything they had, and it wasn't because they weren't innovative. It's just supply and demand. The demand went to almost nothing in a lot of areas. The fast food places were raking it in. They could run less employees and make it more streamlined, many were selling more food. That wasn't because of a change in business model, it was just they were in a business that worked for social distancing. Sometimes it's right place, right time.


I'm just sensitive to this after volunteer cooking at a restaurant for a year now. My better half owns what is one of the larger restaurants in the area, we did everything. It has survived, it's been a constant struggle. If we packaged food to take home and cook most wouldn't have been able to cook it. We are known for our homestyle cooking, were we are that means fried. I don't think people are going home and frying their own chicken, catfish, shrimp, and oysters. Certainly not at the volume it takes to keep the facility going. It's just aweful condescending to read that businesses should just innovate. It's easy to say that when you aren't involved in it, seeing what all it takes. Knowing the costs of everything. Maybe I'm too close to it, but it's always easy to look from the outside and tell someone how they should be doing something when you don't have the experience or know what all is actually going on.

 

[gelton]

Article on one local example of success due to a business model pivot during COVID. They are not the only one.

'"When this whole thing hit, we were just about ready to open as a regular, old restaurant. … The initial response was, ‘Oh, my God, this is a disaster,'” Paluska said."'

But after a change to a take-out model:

'"We’re actually over 100% of our historical high-water marks,” Paluska said."'

So, not "all of em'".

You are correct, perhaps not all of em just 99.95% of them.

 

[charliethwacker]

You're absolutely right. I charge good money for carpentry. I get off work and read articles relevant to my trade. I buy books they have irrelevant information just to see what people were thinking "back then".

I would love to find a traditional shop that was as excited about it as I am.

Same here HVAC and Plumbing for me when I started my trade my wife used to laugh that I had trade mags instead of playboys in bathroom! That being said there are couple shops around me that are like jiffy lube

 

[Warmsy]

Same here HVAC and Plumbing for me when I started my trade my wife used to laugh that I had trade mags instead of playboys in bathroom! That being said there are couple shops around me that are like jiffy lube

Hilarious!

 

[cuttiebrownbow]

I expect to get the work I want done. I expect the work to be done correctly. I expect to pay for that service.

I would expect they would be able to set you up with a timed bow, correct draw length, a d loop without knock pinch, centershot set to spec, and let you take a few shots and give you a tip or two on correct form before sending you out the door with properly spined arrows.

My expectations have never been met.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sled]

My expectations have been readjusted after many pro shop fails. The last time I set foot in one was to buy a trial. I had to cut off everything they did to that bow because it was sloppy and not easy to tune. I set it back to factory and went about shooting.

One thing I do expect is that the fingers on their bow press are covered. I hate getting scratches on a new bow because they are too cheap to change the rubber on the fingers.

 

[dkime]

The real question IMHO, should be how much are you willing to pay for your Pro Shop expectations to be met? I've worked in numerous shops all across the country, most of which are willing to set your bow up without charging the customer. With retail dying, I would expect to start seeing $150/hr shop time charges for extensive work. Pretty reasonable, I can sell multiple bows in an hour on a busy day. If I'm making 275-350$ per bow (not including accessories) why would I take a loss?

 

[Reburn]

I expect my pro shop to hand me the bow I ordred so I can set it up myself. Thats all. I though my expectations were realistic however one member recently proved me wrong.

 

[Btaylor]

The real question IMHO, should be how much are you willing to pay for your Pro Shop expectations to be met? I've worked in numerous shops all across the country, most of which are willing to set your bow up without charging the customer. With retail dying, I would expect to start seeing $150/hr shop time charges for extensive work. Pretty reasonable, I can sell multiple bows in an hour on a busy day. If I'm making 275-350$ per bow (not including accessories) why would I take a loss?

A fee based model would be fantastic. The problem that I have seen is there are a lot of archery stores that sell merchandise but not many at all that have the experience and knowledge to actually warrant the fee based model. We have a local shop that has everything from low end to high including a large amount of traditional gear but that lack in setup and tune department. There is a shop a little over an hour away and that is where I take my compound. I took it in for new strings and harness. Shop owner swapped everything and when we shot it through paper it had a bit of a tear, we tinkered with it and got it close then he said "I can make it shoot a bullet hole but it isnt going to be right, it needs to be shimmed, are you in a hurry?" I said I can stay as long as it takes for it to be right. He charged me based on time and I think it was like $120 and took about an hour. I was happy to pay it because when I walked out I knew my crap was right. I have never seen a newly setup bow shot through paper at the local shop much less any real tuning work. It is nice to have a local store that carries a big variety of quality gear and it is nice to have a great Pro shop fairly close when some real work needs to be done. I am not sure the majority of folks recognize the difference.

 

[dkime]

A fee based model would be fantastic. The problem that I have seen is there are a lot of archery stores that sell merchandise but not many at all that have the experience and knowledge to actually warrant the fee based model. We have a local shop that has everything from low end to high including a large amount of traditional gear but that lack in setup and tune department. There is a shop a little over an hour away and that is where I take my compound. I took it in for new strings and harness. Shop owner swapped everything and when we shot it through paper it had a bit of a tear, we tinkered with it and got it close then he said "I can make it shoot a bullet hole but it isnt going to be right, it needs to be shimmed, are you in a hurry?" I said I can stay as long as it takes for it to be right. He charged me based on time and I think it was like $120 and took about an hour. I was happy to pay it because when I walked out I knew my crap was right. I have never seen a newly setup bow shot through paper at the local shop much less any real tuning work. It is nice to have a local store that carries a big variety of quality gear and it is nice to have a great Pro shop fairly close when some real work needs to be done. I am not sure the majority of folks recognize the difference.

You're exactly right, but we can't say that they can't charge because they dont have the knowledge. They can't attract knowledgeable individuals to work there if they're not willing to pay. Good help isn't cheap, and cheap help isn't good. So when you take your average customer who walks in the door who doesn't give a shit about whether or not his spine is correct or whether and would rather shoot a mechanical and change his strings every 10 years, do we expect him to carry the same cost burden as the guy who wants his bow tuned to the 10th degree? Of course not, but because a shop is now carrying the overhead of paying a guy 50-75k a year to be a good bow technician we have no choice. The reality is that the market will not support this with the industries current business model. Consumer direct is going to ultimately win, it is just going to take one brave bow mfg to take the first step and the rest will have no choice but to follow.

 

[Btaylor]

You're exactly right, but we can't say that they can't charge because they dont have the knowledge. They can't attract knowledgeable individuals to work there if they're not willing to pay. Good help isn't cheap, and cheap help isn't good. So when you take your average customer who walks in the door who doesn't give a shit about whether or not his spine is correct or whether and would rather shoot a mechanical and change his strings every 10 years, do we expect him to carry the same cost burden as the guy who wants his bow tuned to the 10th degree? Of course not, but because a shop is now carrying the overhead of paying a guy 50-75k a year to be a good bow technician we have no choice. The reality is that the market will not support this with the industries current business model. Consumer direct is going to ultimately win, it is just going to take one brave bow mfg to take the first step and the rest will have no choice but to follow.

I get and agree with that and think that is why the only two shops I know of in AR that I would take a bow to be worked on are very small shops. They will be the ones to survive consumer direct because they primarily are selling service rather than product anyway.

 

[Billy Goat]

I don't know if consumer direct will work or not.

I think if I was a store owner I'd stop carrying a bow and servicing it if the company decided they were going to cut me out of it. I guess I'd actually need to be in that industry to know what I would do. I would have no trouble servicing a bow that was bought from a competitor, but if say hoyt decided they would go direct I wouldn't support them. They didn't support me.


It's like first lite in the clothing world. Many places got pretty pissed when they decided to go direct consumer.

 

[540-Virginian]

paying a guy 50-75k a year to be a good bow technician

Wait what... assuming you included fringe benefits in that cost? Do bow techs make close to 40k-60k a year ($19-$29/hr)? Or do they really make 50-75k a year?!

either way those are pretty good salaries IMO...

 

[dkime]

Wait what... assuming you included fringe benefits in that cost? Do bow techs make close to 40k-60k a year ($19-$29/hr)? Or do they really make 50-75k a year?!

either way those are pretty good salaries IMO..

I always allocate 25% to insurance and retirement and other costs associated to having an employee. This was me saying that if you were to pay someone who was truly qualified to do everything for your bow it is what I would expect it to cost. What is your time worth? Would you leave your current job to work 6-7 days a week and have less time to hunt?

 

[540-Virginian]

I always allocate 25% to insurance and retirement and other costs associated to having an employee. This was me saying that if you were to pay someone who was truly qualified to do everything for your bow it is what I would expect it to cost. What is your time worth? Would you leave your current job to work 6-7 days a week and have less time to hunt?

If you paid your tech's 75k/yr I was about to send you my resume...

 

[WCB]

I don't know if consumer direct will work or not.

I think if I was a store owner I'd stop carrying a bow and servicing it if the company decided they were going to cut me out of it. I guess I'd actually need to be in that industry to know what I would do. I would have no trouble servicing a bow that was bought from a competitor, but if say hoyt decided they would go direct I wouldn't support them. They didn't support me.


It's like first lite in the clothing world. Many places got pretty pissed when they decided to go direct consumer.

Depends on the pricing structure...I work in the outdoor industry. We went DTC through our website but sell at MSRP pricing. We make it a point not to undercut our dealers and distributors. Some guys like to by direct and they are willing to pay more. When a guy is on your website researching products why not dangle the carrot out in front of them.

No if you get competitive with prices and cut your dealers legs out you will burn bridges.

 

[Billy Goat]

Depends on the pricing structure...I work in the outdoor industry. We went DTC through our website but sell at MSRP pricing. We make it a point not to undercut our dealers and distributors. Some guys like to by direct and they are willing to pay more. When a guy is on your website researching products why not dangle the carrot out in front of them.

No if you get competitive with prices and cut your dealers legs out you will burn bridges.

Yeah, but when it's a product that 98% of consumers need someone else to work on it I think it's different. Unless you are going to put a screw driver thru the cams, you need a press to put a peep sight in. Archery is just different stuff, takes more equipment to work on. Lots of companies sell direct with trad bow stuff, you really only need a stringer, bow square, and an arrow saw.



I suspect just the liability is going to keep most companies from going direct.