Pressure: when is too much and why?

[bmart2622]

Whens the last time you shot a gun and didn't know what caliber it was??? We can sit here a play hypotheticals and what ifs to change the narrative in our favor all day, bottom line, here in the real world and not fanatsy land where you magically remove the human aspect of firing a rifle, recoil matters.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Sounds good, we're going to agree to disagree that conditioning to recoil is a main issue. Appreciate the discussion, bmart!

 

[bmart2622]

Sounds good, I'm going to agree to disagree that conditioning to recoil is a main issue. Appreciate the discussion, bmart!

Fixed it

 

[35WhelenAI]

No, that's not what I said. If you don't agree, then say you don't agree that conditioning to recoil is a real thing. You are willing to agree to one thing, I'm going to agree to another. That is the essence of "agree to disagree".

 

[bmart2622]

I agree with facts and logic. You dont speak for me and dont decide what I agree with

 

[Tell]

I saw a video from applied ballistics showing how much a gun moved before the bullet was out of the barrel. It was 3/8 of an inch or close to that. I don’t know the cartridge or bullet speed but I thought that was interesting. Recoil management is important, and a shooter with very poor recoil management, or someone used to shooting a 6br out of a 20lb rifle that lets it free recoil would probably shoot the 300 worse without knowing if it would kick much or not, simply because their recoil management wouldn’t be in line and consistent.

I’ve definitely seen impact shifts from body position changes, and I expect that if all you ever shot was a 22lr, your first shot of a heavy recoiling rifle wouldn’t be where it should.

What do you think whelen?

 

[35WhelenAI]

I agree with facts and logic. You dont speak for me and dont decide what I agree with

Yup, you do.

 

[35WhelenAI]

If someone put a cartridge in a chamber and told a shooter to squeeze off the shot with proper form and was truly a blind test situation the bullet is long gone before the human can feel the recoil. Things happen that fast. Second third and fourth shots, I'm not making any claim on that because that's where conditioning to recoil comes in. A bullet traveling 3000 fps takes about a literal millisecond to leave the barrel. There isn't a human alive or ever will be alive that can resond positively or negatively to anything in a millisecond, given the average human reaction time is 250 milliseconds with no external stimulus, i.e focusing on one thing and one thing only.

I am appreciative of responses here, however, this is about doing things to push velocity with unsafe pressures, and we've gotten away from that.

 

[Castle Rock]

Reacting negatively as the trigger is squeezed, is a conditioned response. As of that point, nothing has happened yet until the trigger breaks. If the squeeze is done without prejudice, the recoil will not negatively affect a shot as the bullet has left the barrel before any effect on the shooter (i.e felt recoil that would be human-affecting happens after the bullet is long gone).

Practice at a recoil level that doesn't cause a negatively conditioned response makes lesser recoiling cartridges easier to shoot accurately longer within a shooting session. And reduces recoil anticipation (flinch) in the field or at the range. My shooting every year involves lesser recoiling cartridges and then enough shots to be sure my larger caliber hunting rifle is hitting where it should and then I go hunt.

For instance, a shooter is at the range, asked to take one shot with an unknown cartridge from one gun and another shot from another unknown cartridge. Let's say one is a 300 magnum, and the other a 6.5 creed. The shooter didn't know which one they were shooting, and they use the same technique. All else equal if both guns were known to be accurate would there be a difference in bullet impact? I am only suggesting taking the human element of anticipation and fear out of it. Would there be a difference on one shot?

This is getting away from the point of the thread, but we can enjoy the respectful discussion.

Nice spiel, but you are talking out of your ass