Posting unit #'s

[Hnthrdr]

In my lifetime I’ve gone from hunting archery elk practically every year in either AZ or NM to haven’t drawn NM in over 15 years and working on 8 in AZ. I’m not applying for the hardest to draw units either. Yes I could apply for some easier to draw units but I choose to try for a bit better quality hunt.

Now days drawing a Coues tag takes some thought and strategy to guarantee you have a tag every year.

We could archery hunt the Kiabab and Strip over the counter every year unlimited. Out of state outfitters and their promotion crushed that. Look where it’s at now. It takes a lifetime of applications to draw unless you get really really lucky.

I could go on…..

Talking to midwestern and easterns is like talking to a wall. They cannot even begin to fathom not hunting a deer in their backyard every year, plus getting to play in our backyards

 

[gtriple]

I have only ever hunted public land. But it is My states resource. I’m a Coloradan, but I respect the heck out of wyo for changing their quotas. I don’t mind waiting extra years to hunt up there and think it’s low to gripe about taking opportunities from locals… and then tell them to just deal with it. Living here year round and then not getting to hunt deer is a slap in the face.

Good for you, but that is not the circumstance that you said to "entertain."

I’m with Laramie on this. I hope this never happens to you, sounds like you are a stand up guy letting people hunt on your property, but entertain the idea that you are a born and raised resident of a Rocky Mountain state, you worked your butt off bought a ranch and now tags for both deer and elk have gone from OTC to draw only to such point creep you can’t get a landowner tag every year…. Would you be just as happy and stoked if you couldn’t hunt deer or turkeys on your private property in your home state? I doubt it. That might become a reality when opportunity dries up in the west guys will look for other spots, just hope it’s not your back yard

I also hunt the public land in my own state for waterfowl and small game.

 

[BBob]

And the people that were there before you could hunt whenever they needed to without any regulations from government. Rinse and repeat, every generation complains that the "next generation" is ruining things.

I could go on.....

That is true. I’m not complaining, it is what it is. As far as I’m concerned it’s a lost cause. I’ve made changes to my expectations and will hunt (and fish) accordingly until I physically can’t anymore.

 

[wind gypsy]

Talking to midwestern and easterns is like talking to a wall. They cannot even begin to fathom not hunting a deer in their backyard every year, plus getting to play in our backyards

Ha, take that a step further.. In some states, they cant fathom not having OTC rut hunt rifle tags that can be party hunted with! Heaven forbid you or a buddy don't punch that buck tag, someone else deserves to do it for them. When OTC archery tag for sept-December AND a Firearm rut season AND post rut muzzleloader (with scope and smokeless powder legal nonetheless) isn't enough, we need to make crossbows legal Sept-December too.

 

[hibernation]

The bottom line- there isn't anywhere remotely close to enough supply to meet the current demand. Making it easy for new people to join in the problem hurts everyone- including the new guys in the long run.

Couldn't agree more. A lot of folks get real offended by this idea, but to me there's a big difference between supporting new hunters and actively recruiting/marketing for them. We don't need to "convince" people to try hunting through social media, TV shows, corporate marketing, online tag draw services, etc. That's not the same as saying "no new hunters allowed".

Western hunters are limited by tags, eastern hunters are limited by land access. I don't know where we're supposed to put all these new hunters from R3 efforts, other than just slicing the pie up further and drawing tags less often.

 

[LuvsFixedBlades]

I think clarification with facts is needed on a couple of points here.

First, the total number of hunters in the US has not risen markedly in over 40 years. The total number of hunters has been sitting at around an average of 15M for the last two decades, and actually peaked at around 17M hunters in the 80's. How many of us would say the 80's had better hunting opportunities than now?
Most.
As a percentage of the total population (as that grows), % of hunters has actually been in decline. So, saying we have more (or, too many) hunters isn't really a valid argument. Are there more total recreational users in the field than ever before, absolutely, but not more hunters.

Second, just because someone pays their application or preference point fees with a credit card online as SDHNTR said above, doesn't mean they are using money they don't have. I use a credit card exclusively for all of my purchases, and I don't need to. Making it a pain in the butt to apply or buy a preference point isn't the solution. Making hunting so expensive that normal folks can't apply or hunt isn't either, even though that would benefit me. I think anyone working a legit job who doesn't make very much money should still have an equal crack at hunting for their food or personal fulfilment. What if your 22 year old kid who loves hunting with a passion just graduated from college, in debt, teaches public school and lives check to check wants to apply? They shouldn't be able to because they need a little credit to get their lives started?

If we are looking at this issue as a supply and demand model....land development and constant use of habitat rich in wildlife, especially wintering grounds and spring calving/fawning grounds has impacted the "supply" of wildlife and hunting opportunities more than the total number of hunters has....which largely remains static.

Blame the social media folks all you want to for helping people to understand draw odds and how to apply. But, most of that content is driven by a reaction to the states in the West dramatically reducing their non-resident tag allocations to the point people have no choice but to enter the points game. Not just to draw premium units, but to be able to go hunting at all. There has been a massive shift in Res/Non-Res allocation ratios across the board. It's simply a way to increase revenue for those states without adding any additional pressure on their resources.

My suggestion would be to move to the state you want to hunt in the most if hunting is that important to you, because it's only going to get worse for anyone wanting to hunt out of state.

 

[Gutshot007]

Western hunting is like the gold rush from the east . The masses putting in for drawings , point creep, less opportunity for tags. Lots of public land to roam around on if your lucky enough to draw a tag . Back East mostly non -draw hunting , but way less public land . Some areas really nowhere to hunt unless leasing . I keep hearing western game is a "finite resource" which is true . You cant just let everyone in and decimate elk herds . In general, hunting in the east there are plenty of whitetails just access problems . Different difficulties on either side of the mississippi .no easy answer . ( wind gypsy you must be talking about minnesota - still amazed at rifles and party hunting during the rut . Golden calves that nobody will touch )

 

[Eastonsgrandpa]

New guy question, I've seen a lot of post lately locked because of posting unit #'s. Does this actually cause more people to go the units people name. I could see where OTC units could be a big problem because anyone can go but what about unit that take 15 or 20+ points??

I hunt a very large unit in Utah. The place I go in this unit is largely overlooked. I have yet to actually see another person while in the field. I do not even see boot prints in the dirt. It's a very popular area for atv and dirt bike riders but there are some amazing animals in there and most people don't bother. I won't even discuss the unit. If someone asks me where I go, I say something to the effect of down southish. I guess seventeen miles of dirt road keeps most people at bay and I like that. More than an animal, I pursue solitude and breathing room. My year is hectic and this is my reprieve from the world. I can feel my entire core relax as soon as my tires touch that dirt road. I see trees that I remember from last year and even the drive up is one I take time with so I can take it all in again. I'm glad that we don't discuss the details. I don't know that I would still be a free man if I didn't have that peace to look forward to.

 

[wapitibob]

Ruining it for everyone? Or just for you?

Now you're getting it figured out. The "it's full, we don't need more people" crowd have no problem dragging their buddies out west.

 

[gtriple]

Ha, take that a step further.. In some states, they cant fathom not having OTC rut hunt rifle tags that can be party hunted with! Heaven forbid you or a buddy don't punch that buck tag, someone else deserves to do it for them. When OTC archery tag for sept-December AND a Firearm rut season AND post rut muzzleloader (with scope and smokeless powder legal nonetheless) isn't enough, we need to make crossbows legal Sept-December too.

I can rifle hunt from mid-August to January 1. But we self-impose archery only (crossbows allowed for older guys or kids) until around mid-December for those that haven't filled tags.

 

[woods89]

Talking to midwestern and easterns is like talking to a wall. They cannot even begin to fathom not hunting a deer in their backyard every year, plus getting to play in our backyards

What you're saying is unfortunately true in a lot of instances, but know that some of us are dealing with similar issues here in the Midwest as well.

I've hunted public land for about 15 years here, and I do not talk about my spots at all, other than a few trusted individuals, and even then not in a lot of detail. I have situations locally that could go from good to not good with just a few people in the same area.

I was uneasy when Meateater came to an area about an hour from where I live a few years ago to hunt turkeys.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

First, the total number of hunters in the US has not risen markedly in over 40 years. The total number of hunters has been sitting at around an average of 15M for the last two decades, and actually peaked at around 17M hunters in the 80's.

While this is true, I'd have to guess that today's 15 million hunters have about 5x the hunter days afield versus the 17 million of the 80's. Back in the day most guys i know didn't have a pot to pi$$ in or a window to throw it out off. Nowadays it seems everybody has either 30 days of pto or works remotely with a pile of disposable income.

 

[ilikefunkymusic]

I come here and read mostly.
Posting so I can get out of the arbitrary FNG grouping...

 

[ilikefunkymusic]

No doubt that Newberg, Meateater, and the like have contributed heavily to new application, new hunter participation; and I would argue driven an increase in success rates as well.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Now you're getting it figured out. The "it's full, we don't need more people" crowd have no problem dragging their buddies out west.

Nope, while the Law of Diminishing Returns is based on economics the principal applies here.

The idea we need to recruit more and more people to hunt out west (or hunt in general) eventually hurts ALL hunters. Even those newly recruited via social media it just takes them a few more years to catch on but they do eventually. The result is they become disenchanted and quit altogether and the cycle continues with the next new guy stepping in behind them while the hunting gets worse and worse overall. We should be striving for better quality hunting not just simply more hunters.

The solution to most likely, much to my disdain, is Govt regulation in the form of less tags, shorter seasons, less efficient weapons (crossbows ARENT archery) etc to slow it down. We are currently experiencing the equivalent of Urban Sprawl (which has done nothing positive) in hunting, especially out West.

 

[hibernation]

First, the total number of hunters in the US has not risen markedly in over 40 years.

That may be true, but there's some important differences that don't get discussed. Older relatives of mine that hunted in the 60s-80s mostly went after small game around family farms. A lot of eastern areas didn't have the same big game opportunities we have now, sure, but I think there's been a large shift from kicking up rabbits around your neighbor's farm edges towards "big game or nothing". How many posts are there on here from brand new hunters going straight to rifle mule deer or archery elk? So comparing the same total number of hunters from decades ago isn't exactly an equal comparison on the landscape.

Land has changed too. That same volume of hunters used to be more spread out across lots of smaller parcels, family farms, and woodlots. How many of those places have been paved over for subdivisions? Or "farmed by inches", to the point there's no edge habitat for quail and pheasants anymore?

IMO, the number of hunters may be the same, but they're packed into less area and focused more on big game seasons than in the past.

 

[wapitibob]

I have no problem with new hunters, it's the experienced ones I have issues with.


"That is a great tag. The area around the M@@@@ S@@@@ is a great bet if the weather stays mild. Most overlooked area is A@@@@ C@@@@ going down towards the river, but you better be exercising. Pay particular attention to A@@@@ if it snows hard early. I’ll be looking around this summer up there but only have a spike Tag.
Biggest bull we’ve ever seen was just below T@@@@ s@@@@ last year, Didn’t get a picture of him, probably 350 but had a body as big as a Clydesdale."

 

[gtriple]

I have no problem with new hunters, it's the experienced ones I have issues with.


"That is a great tag. The area around the M@@@@ S@@@@ is a great bet if the weather stays mild. Most overlooked area is A@@@@ C@@@@ going down towards the river, but you better be exercising. Pay particular attention to A@@@@ if it snows hard early. I’ll be looking around this summer up there but only have a spike Tag.
Biggest bull we’ve ever seen was just below T@@@@ s@@@@ last year, Didn’t get a picture of him, probably 350 but had a body as big as a Clydesdale."

Oh, I absolutely agree. Posting anything about any unit or area is just negligent.

 

[philson208]

I can't stand seeing guys post unit #s, or STATE NAMES IN ALL CAPS. I will admit I am not up to date with rokslide new rules regarding posting unit #s, just find it hilariously hypocritical that I finish reading this thread only to go to new posts to read about Colorado unit # x1 and even has a photo of a great bull that most elk hunters new or experienced would love to harvest. I personally don't hunt and tell, so I could care less to understand the rules just find it ironic that some unit#s can stay up while others can't even be posted.

 

[realunlucky]

I can't stand seeing guys post unit #s, or STATE NAMES IN ALL CAPS. I will admit I am not up to date with rokslide new rules regarding posting unit #s, just find it hilariously hypocritical that I finish reading this thread only to go to new posts to read about Colorado unit # x1 and even has a photo of a great bull that most elk hunters new or experienced would love to harvest. I personally don't hunt and tell, so I could care less to understand the rules just find it ironic that some unit#s can stay up while others can't even be posted.

This is exactly the rub-- how can we find out which outfitters offer packout services without a unit number?

People beating the drum for ** are not helpful to those hoping to draw it in the near future. These same members are the very people who should know better

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