POSTING FOR AWARENESS FOR UTAH AND IDAHO RESIDENTS

[Fatcamp]

Hey dudes, I design and build data centers for a living. I also used to work in the utility industry before moving over to the tech side. So, hoping I can provide good insight for those who care to learn more. Happy to answer any questions yall have.

Unfortunately China has started astroturfing anti data center information heavily in the US (and it’s working). Tech companies also aren’t helping this by staying quiet instead of combatting misinformation.

Data Centers use lots of electricity and more so if they opt for less or no water usage. However, we always pay for infrastructure upgrades needed to power our sites. Power companies aren’t ripping away residential power to feed data centers. Power rates have risen due to increased equipment cost post COVID along with renewable energy investments. Data centers are a scapegoat for this increased cost. We also dump a ton of money in to the local community and hire lots of local folks to run the sites. Positively changed a lot of peoples lives overnight once we move in somewhere. You will also see a ton of OSG “on site generation” being implemented for these sites so that will also help reduce any perceived strain on local residents for power.

Also, the water usage can be heavy in areas that can support it like the Midwest or Southeast . However, in places like Utah, NM, AZ, etc where there is less water, we would typically opt for non evaporative or closed loop cooling.

If a Data Center is getting built near you, you will see heavy construction on site for a few years and then it will ease up significantly once construction is complete. Then you will have a few hundred people supporting the site directly with lots of ancillary jobs opening around the local area due to the increased workforce and utility usage of the site. After that, it’s just a low profile concrete building with low traffic around the site and pretty damn quiet.

You will generally have access to very good fiber internet and a robust electrical grid if you live nearby.

This reads like it was written by chatgpt.

Let me ask for your opinion on the pace of this development and what it will look like in five years. Reddit commenter brought up that these massive projects will be outdated in a matter of a couple years. Thoughts?

And can you comment on whether or not AI is currently profitable, or is this just speculation? There must be an amazing amount of money being poured into it, but where is it making money?

 

[BLJ]

Then you will have a few hundred people supporting the site directly with lots of ancillary jobs opening around the local area due to the increased workforce and utility usage of the site.

The one being proposed local to me is in a very rural area that is not greatly accessible.

What forms of ancillary jobs have you seen connected to the building of these data centers?

 

[NRA4LIFE]

A couple janitors and an IT guy on call?

 

[Fever Buck]

This reads like it was written by chatgpt.

Let me ask for your opinion on the pace of this development and what it will look like in five years. Reddit commenter brought up that these massive projects will be outdated in a matter of a couple years. Thoughts?

And can you comment on whether or not AI is currently profitable, or is this just speculation? There must be an amazing amount of money being poured into it, but where is it making money?

I’ve actually never used AI to write anything for me, I'm just not a very talented writer unfortunately so maybe that’s why it sounds like it came from Chat GPT. I graduated college about 15 years too late to have used it then. I mostly use some AI for help with quick engineering calcs and code look ups.

So for the 3 companies that I’ve worked for, we’ve seen about 20 years before you need to actually scrap the building. The good thing is that we have a pretty good 10+ year plan on what the power draw from the racks will look like and so we know how to size our electrical and mechanic systems. You do see the server racks get swapped out every few years like you would with a computer at work. But the main infrastructure will stay the same with occasional retrofits to upsize random gear when needed.

Yes, so far we have found that AI is making money, but only recently. For a long time it was a major money pit. That’s why you see the arms race with Claude, Gemeni, Chat GPT, etc. However, it seems be pretty company specific. Gemeni and Claude seem to be the most successful with creating AI products that people actually want to purchase while Open AI/Chat GPT is starting to struggle for funding.

Another benefit is even if AI turns out to be total BS, you still need most of these data centers for cloud and computing capacity with our ever growing virtual world.

These companies are basically selling their AI products to companies and individuals like any other software sales in the past.

 

[IdahoBeav]

Man, when you work in the AEC industry, people will complain about every type of project you work on.

 

[One300wsm]

And that’s totally fine man. I was very up front with my background. If I thought it was bad for our country I wouldn’t do what I do. I have a young family and care greatly for this country and the wild places we have in it. Just wanted to bring nuance to the discussion that I normally don’t see in these Data Center discussions. I wouldn’t consider myself a liar or hypocrite, and I’m definitely not a politician who takes a private jet to the WEF.

I totally respect your honesty and value your opinion. Awesome you’re a family man. All this technology is over my head and I’m not going to pretend it isn’t. I’m a hands on person I just build stuff.

 

[Fever Buck]

The one being proposed local to me is in a very rural area that is not greatly accessible.

What forms of ancillary jobs have you seen connected to the building of these data centers?

Thanks for the question. We’ve seen food services, trash, waste water, power, fiber, standing construction teams, security, housing, medical services, and hospitality services all increase staffing. I won’t sugar coat it, It does get harder the more rural or “undesirable” a location is as people simply don’t want to move to the area for work. But you will see increased employment numbers in the area outside of the direct DC employees.

 

[Fever Buck]

Man, when you work in the AEC industry, people will complain about every type of project you work on.

Yep. People got mad when I built generating facilities too. Just can’t win

 

[BLJ]

Thanks for the question. We’ve seen food services, trash, waste water, power, fiber, standing construction teams, security, housing, medical services, and hospitality services all increase staffing. I won’t sugar coat it, It does get harder the more rural or “undesirable” a location is as people simply don’t want to move to the area for work. But you will see increased employment numbers in the area outside of the direct DC employees.

Do you have any links to this information that explains the correlation between the data centers and ancillary job growth?

 

[Fever Buck]

Do you have any links to this information that explains the correlation between the data centers and ancillary job growth?

I would provide some but I can’t back up their actual numbers and I’m always wary of sending information I haven’t personally vetted or experienced. It seems to vary depending on what article or study you look at. Also seems to vary on how large the campus is that is built. Just use Google and you’ll see quite a few different articles. Just be wary of bias for or against data centers. Seems to either deflate or inflate the number of jobs created.

 

[BLJ]

I would provide some but I can’t back up their actual numbers and I’m always wary of sending information I haven’t personally vetted or experienced. It seems to vary depending on what article or study you look at. Also seems to vary on how large the campus is that is built. Just use Google and you’ll see quite a few different articles. Just be wary of bias for or against data centers. Seems to either deflate or inflate the number of jobs created.

What company are you working for now?
Maybe I could look up how the data centers you have built have had a positive impact on those communities.

Do you have a link to your company site?

 

[ODB]

Also, everyone needs to understand we are in a high tech arms race with China. However you feel about US AI and Data Centers, you need to understand that China will not stop building. Do you want them to have better artificial intelligence and technology than the US?

Similar existential crises are constantly used to justify the actions of a government or group - and they are never tangible, just 'what ifs' that can never be demonstrated nor proven to be true or false.

How will we know we are ahead or have lost?

We make tech or arms races and the problems that go with them, then use them as leverage to do what they hell we want to. Live long enough and you begin to grow weary of the whole damn thing.

 

[Fever Buck]

Similar existential crises are constantly used to justify the actions of a government or group - and they are never tangible, just 'what ifs' that can never be demonstrated nor proven to be true or false.

How will we know we are ahead or have lost?

We make tech or arms races and the problems that go with them, then use them as leverage to do what they hell we want to. Live long enough and you begin to grow weary of the whole damn thing.

totally agree. I’m hopeful someone a lot smarter than me has the answer.

 

[Rotnguns]

Just to add some context to the “heat island”. That study has not been peer reviewed. Nobody knows how the guy came up with his heat numbers and there’s a lot of variables not explained in his study. Just sucks because people have totally run with it which doesn’t help Data Center image.

To be fair, the First Law of Thermodynamics provides us with a very basic relationship between the energy drawn by a data center and the energy transferred away from the data center as heat: they are virtually the same at steady state operation. For example, if this proposed data center draws 9 GW-hours of electricity, then it will transfer 9 GW-hours of heat to the environment at steady state operation. Any difference goes into raising the temperature of the data center components, which is why such systems do best when they run at steady state after operational temperatures are attained. And that's not to mention the effects of literally dozens of combined-cycle gas turbine generating plants planned for the site; from what I've seen cited in this discussion, the plan is for 7.5 GW of capacity. Not sure if this is nameplate or after a capacity factor is applied.

As to the environmental impact of this heat transfer, I agree that there's a paucity of credible studies; longitudinal data for such massive data centers are still being acquired and we'll need to wait awhile to form any sort of scientific consensus.