Port Strike

[KsRancher]

Infer what you want from it I guess. If I were building a commercial building where I live I would choose union labor based on the quality and production rates I've seen from both in my area.

I imagine it matters where you are at what the job is. But around me if you show up at a job site with union labor it's absolutely pitiful. All you hear is "thats so and so job", "I only run the excavator", "you will have to wait until after break to get unloaded". Meanwhile us non union guys are all about getting stuff done and moving on with life. I am not a fan of the "not my job" comment.

 

[JFK]

No part of this seems like collective bargaining. Daring them to fire everyone and start over is nothing more than legal extortion.

Employees request higher pay or they will, at the very worst, disrupt work, equals legal extortion in your words.

So if an employer tells employees that if they don’t like working conditions they can quit and start over, that equals what?

It’s the same thing. No one’s hands are clean. No side is perfect and there are definitely cases of abuse on both sides, but if I’m speaking generally, I’ll side with the guy actually doing the work every single time.

 

[TandKHunting]

Don’t worry. This will all be resolved with Kamala’s opportunity economy. No idea what it actually entails; nobody does, but I’m sure it will fix everything.

 

[isItFallYet]

I’m sure only union members do that

Meanwhile the union member on here has been on Rokslide while at work….

Yes, you definitely need a raise!

 

[Elkangle]

Dont forget the partys involved....the union labor, The customer, and the shipping co... the customer is whose ever goods are being shipped...the union is just the local community that gave up its waterfront in excahnge for the work.. the shipping co is the shit bags living in the shadows that nobody ever talks about.

If you want to supprt foriegn countrys and export american dollar off the backs of small business and communities then by all means have at it.

just dont complain when your kid has to travel across the country to find work because everyone thought saving jobs wasnt imoprtant.

With that said...both sides are playing with fire..the wages need to compete with the other trades in order to attract a quality work force with the diverse skills required to move anything and everything...you dont want shit bags moving the countrys cargo just like you dont want minimum qualified people building airplanes and maybe you guys havent noticed but both examples seem to be happening alot. Being cheap on labor doesnt save money in this sector in the long run

 

[HoneyDew]

500 million dollar bonus?! The disregard for common folk is just getting completely out of hand. You only get a bonus of that size and proportion if you've been compromised and have cut some throats here and there along the way. Makes you wonder.

I looked because that number seems ridiculous. Most I can see is $6million total compensation for 2023. Not sure where he got that number.

 

[HoneyDew]

The short answer is we have always cost 5% of the ship lines total cost. We are now 1.5%. The CEO of maersk received a 500 million dollar Christmas bonus last year lol. Yes we want a 50% increase but that’s over an 8 year period, not right off the top. To be transparent both sides have been unreasonable

Can you share where you got that number? Genuinely curious. Most I can find is $6million total compensation for 2023.

 

[ozyclint]

Ag has been improving with automation quickly and it has been embraced by those that can afford it. Efficiency equals $$ for Ag.

Ag has to improve efficiency to survive. Farmers are price takers they don't get to pass on costs.


If a pay rise worked to help with living costs then it would have already worked.
My Grandad got payed less per month than what get per week.

 

[Tjdeerslayer37]

IUOE members can be let go anytime the foreman says he or she can’t do the job productively.

well in that case im glad there is accountability in one union!

 

[Rotnguns]

I agree with what you're saying. The problem is its not IF jobs will be lost, they will be lost. The hard part is finding the line. I don't agree with everything they are negotiating on so i cannot defend all of it. If all 36 ports switch to fully automated facility's that puts around 60k people out of work. That i don't agree with, in any industry. Do you think when they come out with self driving 18 wheelers the teamsters wont try & fight it? At some point sooner or later none of us need to work. AI can can design your house, forget the architect, trucks can drive themselves, we wont need truck drivers, AI can do marketing, don't need those people any more either. Hell AI can do engineering now too. Like i said im not going to defend everything we are asking for because i don't agree with it all, i do believe in keeping jobs.

We will always need to work. And "AI" cannot "do" anything. It's an algorithm (neural net, to be precise) that was designed and implemented by humans to respond to input. As always, humans develop and implement fundamental and advanced engineering and architectural principles and procedures that lead to efficient and adaptable algorithms. The key issue here, IMO, is that your union is asking us to halt the advance of technology. Sure, that will save jobs in the short term, but at what cost? Suppose Ruger abandoned all their CNC machinery and automated casting and molding systems and went back to hand assembly? Lots of new jobs to be sure, and you'd be paying about ten times what you do now for Ruger products. Same with cars, and any other durable or disposable goods and products. How about asking for less of a raise and more training and education instead, so that workers will be prepared to add to the advancement of technology, instead of being threatened by it?

 

[DenverCountryBoy]

No part of this seems like collective bargaining. Daring them to fire everyone and start over is nothing more than legal extortion.

So you do understand unions.

 

[Gstew1930]

We will always need to work. And "AI" cannot "do" anything. It's an algorithm (neural net, to be precise) that was designed and implemented by humans to respond to input. As always, humans develop and implement fundamental and advanced engineering and architectural principles and procedures that lead to efficient and adaptable algorithms. The key issue here, IMO, is that your union is asking us to halt the advance of technology. Sure, that will save jobs in the short term, but at what cost? Suppose Ruger abandoned all their CNC machinery and automated casting and molding systems and went back to hand assembly? Lots of new jobs to be sure, and you'd be paying about ten times what you do now for Ruger products. Same with cars, and any other durable or disposable goods and products. How about asking for less of a raise and more training and education instead, so that workers will be prepared to add to the advancement of technology, instead of being threatened by it?

I’ve said it once and this is the my last damn response to this thread. IM NOT ASKING FOR ANYTHING. I’m not at the negotiating table. All I’ve done is try to show both sides of the story & what they are asking for. Do you condone everything Biden has done and agree with everything our government has been doing? You’re American, he’s your president. So you must agree with him right? I haven’t asked for shit. Can tech replace most of the guy is my industry, yes. Would it be more efficient, probably. All I’ve said is I don’t think it’s a good thing to put 60k Americans out of work. If that makes me a dick head so be it. I’m out

 

[bozeman]

Self preservation will make men do crazy things........

 

[Burnsie]

I get that the Union wants to preserve as many jobs as they can - but they really loose any respect I might have had for them when they fight against automation so vehemently. Innovation, and always looking for ways to do things more efficiently and less costly is what built this country. I guess our farmers could still be out in the fields with a hand scythe harvesting their grain, but someone invented the thrashing machine, then the combine. Todays modern combines are almost hands off, tracking down the field with GPS. Lets go back to the days when the dock workers were unloading everything from the ships with manual labor and nets, then you would need 5-10 times the high paid union workers. Yep - quit trying to innovate and improve so I can continue to get mine - great idea.

 

[bpa556]

You sir sound entitled.

What exactly did he write that prompted this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Weldor]

I bet most of the guys are on here at work.

Retired. LOL

 

[307]

I get that the Union wants to preserve as many jobs as they can - but they really loose any respect I might have had for them when they fight against automation so vehemently. Innovation, and always looking for ways to do things more efficiently and less costly is what built this country. I guess our farmers could still be out in the fields with a hand scythe harvesting their grain, but someone invented the thrashing machine, then the combine. Todays modern combines are almost hands off, tracking down the field with GPS. Lets go back to the days when the dock workers were unloading everything from the ships with manual labor and nets, then you you would need 5-10 times the high paid union workers. Yep - quit trying to innovate and improve so I can continue to get mine - great idea.

This is the thing.

I don't want to pay 10x for groceries so that farmers can return to hand planting/harvesting grain instead of using modern equipment/technology.

I'm generally fine with labor organizing to improve wages but resisting obvious advances in efficiency through modern tech is where I become an opponent to the unions.

Jobs evolve and some are lost to technology while others open up as a result of technology. No group should be able to hold the American economy hostage over a futile attempt to resist change. It's never worked and it won't work this time either.

 

[DenverCountryBoy]

Debunking ILA dockworkers’ claims about carrier price gouging

The International Longshoremen’s Association is accusing container shipping lines of ripping off customers, but rates are four times lower than the union claims.

www.freightwaves.com

 

[Weldor]

This is the thing.

I don't want to pay 10x for groceries so that farmers can return to hand planting/harvesting grain instead of using modern equipment/technology.

I'm generally fine with labor organizing to improve wages but resisting obvious advances in efficiency through modern tech is where I become an opponent to the unions.

Jobs evolve and some are lost to technology while others open up as a result of technology. No group should be able to hold the American economy hostage over a futile attempt to resist change. It's never worked and it won't work this time either.

What about farmers and AG companies getting paid not to plant? I never could figure that one out. price control? what says you?

 

[Sooner]

I imagine it matters where you are at what the job is. But around me if you show up at a job site with union labor it's absolutely pitiful. All you hear is "thats so and so job", "I only run the excavator", "you will have to wait until after break to get unloaded". Meanwhile us non union guys are all about getting stuff done and moving on with life. I am not a fan of the "not my job" comment.

I worked for a union for 18 years (still here but was promoted to salary last year). The not my job comment has always drove me crazy. And it's well used.