Nope. I am not buying any more rifles. It will have to be something from my current inventory. I have some pretty nice rifles.Not for you to decide.
He can always sell a few and buy new.
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Nope. I am not buying any more rifles. It will have to be something from my current inventory. I have some pretty nice rifles.Not for you to decide.
He can always sell a few and buy new.
But not hardly any between a 143 6.5CM and a 139gr 7-08.You have a 6.5 Grendel and a 25-06 per your other comments in the thread. Those cover 100% of possible deer and elk hunting needs, so you could just sell all of the ones you listed.
Of the ones you listed, 6.5CM is as close to an objectively best choice as you can get for your listed restrictions. Factory ammo is relatively cheap, available, and GOOD. 6.5 also has far more selection/availability in lighter weight bullets compared to either 7mm or .308, which is what you need to be looking at given your recoil constraints. Capable .284 or .308 bullets in the 120gr or less range are almost non-existent in those chamberings, while the 6.5CM is loaded with options in that bullet weight class.
You will notice the difference in recoil between a 120gr 6.5CM and a 140gr 7mm-08 or 150gr .308.
Right, but someone who's recoil sensitive (particularly due to an injury) wouldn't want to use 140gr options if they can avoid it.But not hardly any between a 143 6.5CM and a 139gr 7-08.
A 150 in a 7-08 and a 150 in a 6.5cm are also so close in recoil I don't think many people could tell the difference. It's like 3gr of powder.
I have some 120 Barnes TTSX in 7mm that could be a good pill for elk. I know they are for deer. I just have not done much testing with them.Right, but someone who's recoil sensitive (particularly due to an injury) wouldn't want to use 140gr options if they can avoid it.
That's the gist of my reply. There's a LOT of options for the 6.5 between 100-120 grs that are perfectly suited to the OP's use case. There's very few options in the 7mm range in this weight. The historical line in bullet options in the 25 years that I've been messing with 6.5s and 7s has always been right about the 140gr line. 6.5 has much better options below that, both have good options around that, 7mm has much better options above that weight.
For 7mm at 120grs, you're pretty much limited to Nosler BTs and Sierra Pro-hunters. I'm not aware of options below that grain weight other than varmint bullets in 7mm. Lots more options in that range for 6.5s, particularly with all the bullets that have come out in recent years for the Grendel.
If you're open to shooting coppers, there's some good 6.5 options in the 100gr range. My Tikka 6.5x55 shoots 100gr HHTs very well (and very fast).I have some 120 Barnes TTSX in 7mm that could be a good pill for elk. I know they are for deer. I just have not done much testing with them.
Would you also not gamble on a 270 Win for elk?I wouldn’t gamble a 1-2x chance at an elk on a 6.5cm, that’s the only regret with it given your requirements. It’s fine for a whitetail cartridge.
No reason for more than a 6ARC in this scenario. My 16.5" 6ARC bolt gun will still exceed the minimum expansion velocity for 108 ELDs out to 450 yards.Yes, another poll because they are fun and provide me wisdom and knowledge from folks.
You have decided to downsize significantly. You want to keep one caliber with the following considerations:
1) Mostly whitetail hunting within 300 yards, with a possibility of 400 yards.
2) A possible elk or mule deer hunt once, twice at the most.
3) The possibility of future neck and shoulder problems worsening, causing additional recoil sensitivity.
4) You reload.
To be precise, the load you describe is 126% in terms of recoil compared to a 120gr 6.5CM load over 40 grains of Varget.7mm-08, all day every day and twice on Sunday.
140 grain's over 41 to 42 grains of Varget = 100% everything a 6.5 Creedmoor is in terms of recoil and effective performance inside the 1/4 mile mark
To be precise, the load you describe is 126% in terms of recoil compared to a 120gr 6.5CM load over 40 grains of Varget.
That's a noticeable difference in the shoulder pocket for zero gain in ballistic performance.
Yes, you'd probably have to shoot both side by side, OR have a physical injury that makes you recoil susceptible as is the case for the OP. Physics is physics and there is a quantifiable difference in recoil between the two cartridges at the same ballistic level, just as a 6CM would have even less recoil for the same ballistic performance if the OP was open to options he doesn't already own.Sure, if you compare apples and oranges. However, a 120 grain bullet (Nosler BT for example) in a 7mm-08 vs a 120 in a Creedmoor, would again be more/less identical.
Actually, to be truly apples to apples, we should match velocities as well:
42 grains of H4350 in a 6.5CM pushes a 140 grain bullet around 2700 FPS in a 22 inch barrel.
42 grains of varget in a 7mm-08 can push a 140 grain bullet up near 2820 FPS in a 22 inch barrel.
To match velocities, we have to dial the Varget back to around 40 grains to slow to 140 bullet in the 7mm-08 to the same speed as the Creedmoor at max load, so the 7mm-08 will actually have LESS recoil at that point.
Though, the recoil of both is going to be so similar, you'd have to shoot the side by side in identically configured rifles to ever be able to tell the difference (and even then, I'd be surprised if you could).
Yes, you'd probably have to shoot both side by side, OR have a physical injury that makes you recoil susceptible as is the case for the OP. Physics is physics and there is a quantifiable difference in recoil between the two cartridges at the same ballistic level, just as a 6CM would have even less recoil for the same ballistic performance if the OP was open to options he doesn't already own.
You're cherry picking data in your "apples to apples" comparison above. The appropriate "apples to apples" comparison in terminal performance between 6.5mm and 7mm bullets is 120gr and 140gr respectively, based on a simple calculation of Sectional Density (.246 vs .248). This is also an appropriate comparison from an external ballistic perspective based on comparing BCs within common bullet families. Continuing with the Ballistic Tip family you've referenced above, from both a sectional density and BC measurement:
120gr .264 = 140gr .284
100gr .264 = 120gr .284
I'm betting there's an unwritten reason why you've chosen Ballistic Tips and 140gr bullets for the comparison above. Looking in the 100gr or 120gr class, the 6.5mm has FAR more bullet options and MUCH better ballistic coefficients available.
I'm also not sure why you'd match velocities in any theoretical or real comparison of the two cartridges? Given the ballistically inferior performance of 7mm bullets in the same weight as 6.5mm bullets, you'd HAVE to start the 7mm faster for identical terminal performance unless you plan on placing the muzzle on your target animal before pulling the trigger.
From a light recoil perspective, the 6.5CM wins by a measurable amount compared to 7mm-08. Relative powder capacity and available bullet weights in the respective calibers make this as close to an absolute as you can get in this world.