Please do a valid Review on Swarovski NL

[ozyclint]

It's a hard one. Wait for reviews from people who have skin in the game and actually paid all that money for them hoping it would be a more genuine review or will that introduce bias from the reviewer? Who wants to tell the truth if you don't like it and it cost you so much to find out.

 

[DaffyDuck77]

I really think the natural comparison would be against an also squeaky clean and new Zeiss SF 42mm of the same power.

 

[handwerk]

Here's a short one:

Swarovski NL Pure 12x42 - binoculars review - AllBinos.com

The best binocular tests on the net. The comprehensive database of binoculars with their parameters and users opinions. Interesting articles and comparisons.

www.allbinos.com

 

[Sako300]

I’ve never rented optics before! But the NL maybe the exception! Like renting a new Tahoe SUV with insurance! Then I will post an analytical review with optical images! Then I’ll get crushed by what camera I used with the NL!

 

[Sako300]

Or heck, which retailer would be kind enough the get a return back? I’m calling Doug!

 

[V-TRAIN]

Look on birdfourm.com, there is a 30 plus page thread on there with folks talking/reviewing them.

 

[V-TRAIN]

Swarovski NL 8x42 - First Impressions

It is not too late to cancel the order on the NL 8x42 if it has a problem with veiling glare. Historically Swarovski have problems with glare. Maybe the Zeiss SF 8x32 handles glare better. FOV isn't that much smaller and it is much lighter and smaller. The SV 8x32 and the SV 8.5x42 had more...

www.birdforum.net

 

[Sako300]

Thankyou!

 

[V-TRAIN]

No problem

 

[SecretSpot]

Ive spent hours on bird forum and my conclusion is that although highly touted on here, they dont use binos like hunters do. They dont glass ridges from 500-4000yards looking for color patterns and small movement. Alot of the things they gripe about are minor ounces, handholding which hunters use tripods alot more. And then the meticulous nit picking of how a foucs wheel feels or the armoring feels. I am not a birder but i spend alot of time in montana looking for bears, deer, elk you name it, in various country. Blowdowns, burn, thick rugged, steep country. Whens the last time a birder spotted a bear at 3 miles with a pair of 8x going through timber? Agree or disagree, ive read hundreds if not thousands of their comments on various top tier optics that i also own and i take all but a select few of their comments lightly.

 

[CorbLand]

Ive spent hours on bird forum and my conclusion is that although highly touted on here, they dont use binos like hunters do. They dont glass ridges from 500-4000yards looking for color patterns and small movement. Alot of the things they gripe about are minor ounces, handholding which hunters use tripods alot more. And then the meticulous nit picking of how a foucs wheel feels or the armoring feels. I am not a birder but i spend alot of time in montana looking for bears, deer, elk you name it, in various country. Blowdowns, burn, thick rugged, steep country. Whens the last time a birder spotted a bear at 3 miles with a pair of 8x going through timber? Agree or disagree, ive read hundreds if not thousands of their comments on various top tier optics that i also own and i take all but a select few of their comments lightly.

They also nit pick clarity, color contrast and edge to edge. All the things that hunters use.

 

[camelcluch]

I had SLCs and now the NLs. Hands down the NLs are better in every way, to my eyes. There are some really nice choices and you have see what’s the best for you.

 

[SecretSpot]

Yeah i didnt mention those qualities because they are valid.

 

[Spiral Horn]

Ive spent hours on bird forum and my conclusion is that although highly touted on here, they dont use binos like hunters do. They dont glass ridges from 500-4000yards looking for color patterns and small movement. Alot of the things they gripe about are minor ounces, handholding which hunters use tripods alot more. And then the meticulous nit picking of how a foucs wheel feels or the armoring feels. I am not a birder but i spend alot of time in montana looking for bears, deer, elk you name it, in various country. Blowdowns, burn, thick rugged, steep country. Whens the last time a birder spotted a bear at 3 miles with a pair of 8x going through timber? Agree or disagree, ive read hundreds if not thousands of their comments on various top tier optics that i also own and i take all but a select few of their comments lightly.

There is an abundance of in-depth analyses of the entire product line of most major binocular brands on BirdForum. One just has to search and read. Often folks who go their looking for fawning reviews of their favorite optic or brand are disappointed when they read anything critical.

Many of their regular posters are extensively experienced with different optics - everything from field reviews to actual lab analysis. It’s a wealth of available information to help anyone decide which optic best suits their needs.

Yes, birders are much more likely to handhold binoculars, but they use them extensively and often. They are also attempting to draw incredible levels of image detail to discern often very slight differences in size, shape, proportionality; plumage and wing pattens; all the way down to the presence of eye rings or even eye color. All of this often has to be done during just very brief views of the bird. So, yes, that group of folks can of recognize subtle differences in the view characteristics presented by different binoculars.

Agree that some of the uber-technical reviews from a few of their resident engineers and physicists lose my attention if they dive too deep. However, in general I find the site very informative and of great value. It’s certainly more valuable than reading “buy Swarovski, nuff said.”

 

[SecretSpot]

And still, I am not discrediting 100% of the reviews there. Id say about 5% of what i have read on there is useful, hard science and observation, hence why ive spent many hours there. However there is alot of fluffy threads floating around. Also i tend to gravitate towards the very technichal reviews that leave opinions aside.

 

[Reed104R]

I think just about every review or opinion I ever read on the NL's places them at or near the top of the heap. The FOV is what jumps out at you. I have used, but not compared them to other optics. You get what you pay for in this business. The color bias may favor hunters more than birders.

 

[kaboku68]

This will be long, probably taking several posts. I sell NLs and I use NLs. I am not rich but I greatly value a good product and will give you a perspective that comes from about 30 years of working around the elites.

I am going to tell you that you probably shouldn't buy the NLs. They are expensive. They are extremely precise and to truly optimize them you are going to have to buy the forehead attachment and an outdoorsman's binocular stud.

I work part time in a box store and sell optics at the store. We sell a decent amount of optics for a store. We have five more active sales people in our department. We sell a lot of Vortex and Leupold Binoculars. They provide a decent image and they don't break the bank. The local hunters spend more money on hunting than many hunters in different places. This might not seem apparent at first but imagine that while an Alaska resident can get an over the counter sheep tag for free they have to invest in toys to be able to access the resources. A good jet boat costs more than 50K and most approach 100K. This is a drop in the bucket compared to the expenses involved in a supercub and its mastery. Some such is approaching a million dollars over the 25 years of effective use of the cub. ATVs might cost less but they are also much effective at providing a return on getting a ram. People can just scout and walk in but then they need a job that might provide them with an extended amount of time.

When I sell a pair of binoculars I do not go out to sell a pair of binoculars as quickly as possible. I live in a small town and I have a very limited base of customers. I want my customers to make decisions that they can live with for a long time. I tell them to carefully look and not rush decisions.

We use an old Brunton Optics Chart that has been in the store since 2006. The optics chart is a bit like a Bev Doolittle or a Where's Waldo picture that has a number of different animals and index points. There is one index point of three hunters that are on a ridge that is very interesting.

You can only make out two hunters if you use lower end Vortex, Leupold, Bushnell, SigSauer, Meopta. You will see three figures at Vortex Razors 10X50 or 12X50. You can see them with the Zeiss Conquest HD 10X42, Meopta Meostar 10X42, or the Leica Trinovid HD 10X42 binoculars. You can also see them with the Leupold Santium BX-5 10X42 binoculars.

They become much more clear with the Vortex UHDs, especially the 12X50s, and I am sure that the 18Xs would provide a good view of them as well. The Swarovski 10X42 SLC HDs would also show them distinctly and the Leica Ultravid, Leica Noctavid, the Zeiss SFs or even the Zeiss SFL 10X40s would be extremely clear. The Swarovski 15X56 SLC HD and the Swarovski Legend EL SV 10X42 and the EL 12X50 would also give you a more clear view.

There is a different test index point that we use for Spotting scopes. It is different than the ones we use for binoculars. There is a female mountain lion that is in a coulee above an unexpecting hiker who is a lot smaller than the other three hikers mentioned. We use that mountain lion to show the difference between Razor 85s and lesser scopes. It is visible with the Swarovski, the Zeiss and the Leica Televid Spotters that we sell. The Swarovski 12X42 NL Binocular set perfectly to a customer's eyes with the face plate adjusted correctly allows the viewer to correctly judge the mountain lion. It is just better than any other, including bigger, binocular that is presently made.


So you have to ask yourself. Why would I say that you probably don't need the binocular? It is a pain in the butt to get adjusted right for each eye, it requires finesse so it doesn't bounce, you have to adjust the eye cups just right so you don't get flaring. It is expensive and much more so that other alpha elite binoculars. It is more than $1000 more than the SLC HD 15Xs or the EL 10X 42 binoculars. The ELs are much more friendly for eye glass wearers. Your eyes may like the Leicas more and the Zeiss SFs are extremely good at getting a very detailed image. But if you can learn to adjust and work with them the NL 12X42s have no equal. That being said. If I wasn't fixated on sheep and mountain goat hunting that I would be far happier with the 8X42 NL binoculars than any of the others. I will go over and rate most of the binoculars that I mentioned in another post tomorrow. The Vortex UHDs are underrated and I don't believe that people truly get them.

 

[handwerk]

Great post. Yes the 12x42 NL is an amazing binocular, but I do agree that the eyecup adjustment is pretty fussy and in my mind there are too many settings.
I certainly enjoy my 12X NL's for tripod work but for my daily handhelds it's either my old Geovids or EL Ranges..

 

[kaboku68]

I would like to start with the least expensive binoculars that I think you could reasonably hunt with. I presently don't have a pair because I gave my only pair to my uncle who was killed in a freak accident so I believe that my aunt probably uses them to look at birds at their lakefront home on Lake Kampeska near Watertown, South Dakota.
The Steiner Military Marine 8X30 Porro Prism binoculars can be purchased for 290.00 on Opticsplanet. I am sure that Doug at Cameraland can find you a deal on these as well. They are handy, durable and can take a real beating before they slowly get knocked out of collimination. They had a great field of view and an even better sharpness especially when looking from a treestand. For a starting sheep hunter on a budget they are a super great choice. They really aren't heavy although they are much heavier than the roof prism compact alpha binoculars. They really pan well and give a great image. They are sealed and able to handle tough weather. Steiner must have imprisoned some trained garden gnomes to build them because I understand that they are still made in Germany

The Vortex Viper family is next on this list. I have never had to send back any of the four or five pairs of Vortex Vipers that I have had. They have two Objective lens that sharpen the image tremendously. They work well both in artificial and nature light. Two years ago they moved manufacture to the Phillipines and their quality very much improved. They kept the price the same. They get nudged out by the Leupold Guide Pros for sharpness of image but you can find the Viper HDs on sale. The 8X42 and 10X42 are the winners in this class as the 12X50s shake quite a bit. There are many sheep hunters and just regular hunters that have these as their lifetime binoculars. This is a Vortex product line that is very good. Even Vortex haters have to admit that they are great binoculars. I don't think that you can find a better pair of cabin binoculars, SO binoculars or binoculars for your teenage son or daughter. They are also great binoculars if you need a dedicated pair for a hunting partner who is a cheap azz. There are a lot of people out there like who pinch their pennies their whole life. They are also a great pair if you have 20/20 or 20/10 vision and can make them work and punch above their weight class. They give about 90% of the performance of the Alpha class and you could get by with them for the rest of your life. They are just a smidge less good that the BL Elites or the Leupold Gold Rings that were produced about 10-12 years ago. They are also a very good binocular to give as a tip to a guide. I have used them as a present to several of the "bush families" like the Seldens from the Last Alaskans who sell furs and Martin penis ear rings in our gift shop. Tyler has a pair of 12X50 Vipers that he uses guiding for Lyle Becker or Charlie Jagow. I betcha a lot of registered guides use Vipers. They pan well and have a good color separation with perhaps a smidge of yellow in the image. They gather light well and will perform in low light environments. You should include them whenever you are shopping for alphas because they are the definition a baseline binocular.


The next binocular is the Dickens binocular of having the best and sometimes the worst of performance in the Zeiss Terra HDs. The range of individual differences in quality of binocular are bigger in this family line of binoculars than any other. You can find very good single examples of this binocular but you can also find some stinkers. This is one binocular that goes on sale and can be a decent deal. The problem is that if you take them outside and really use them on images at a distance that you get headaches. They are hard on the eyes and you have your eyeballs sort of sucked out of your head. They are German components assembled in China. Strangely they have a similar image to the Meopta Optika 10X42 binocular that has a sharp image but a lack of eye relief and somehow they produce eye strain. They might just not have the jigs right. I know that you can find decent individual binoculars that can deliver a bit of wow but I also know that if the bad examples are out there I wonder how long they would go until they are knocked out of alignment. I think that Hawke Binoculars are similar to these two. I have heard great things and I have heard people extremely disappointed in these as well.


The next binocular is very much over rated. I believe that the Vortex Razor HDs that are made in China are decent. They have an APO design ( three objective lenses that provide for a more polarized light image) and use real lead in their glass so it looks good at the store. They even look good when you take them outside and look at index points. However, I hear from a lot of woodlot, hard core hunters from hell bringing back stories about razors failing in the field. I have had two pairs of these and I was pleased with one and disappointed with the other. The 12 X 50 Razor HD is the binocular that in my experience does well in this family. It is very sharp and it doesn't perform poorly in bad weather. I would not pay the full retail price on these unless they are my only option. You can find them on sales and they are a good placeholder if you can get them on sale. They used to be made in Japan and those binoculars are actually better than the new ones and they were last made in Japan about six or seven years ago.

The Leica Trinovid 10X42 does not have the pop that the Razors, the Santium BX-5, the Meostars, or the Zeiss HD conquest lines but they are probably sharper in general. They give a super fine image and they have a very, very, very slight tint to them compared to other binoculars. They offer decent eye relief but they are not as eye glass friendly as the Zeiss HD. There are people who love this image and this is the binocular of choice with people who have opinions that I value. They like these better than the Ultravids and I don't know why but they are great binoculars. I have a pair of Leica HD-R Geovids and they are optically very good but the rangefinding capabilities are not up. The revised HD-R Geovids might be the best bang for the buck Bino/RF combo out there if you value true optical performance with a lunch bucket rangefinder. Slight yellowish but not bad and they have great low light performance and are sturdy. I hope to someday have a pair of Retrovids which are leather cased waterproof 7X35 Trinovids. That would be a monster for still hunting moose in timber and swamps. It would also be great for hunting sloughs and crosscuts for moose or bears in a boat.


I will write about the next lot of binoculars next. From the Leupold Santium BX5s to Zeiss Conquests, Vortex UHDs, Swaro SLCs, to the start of Alphas. I will probably start with the Nikon HG 10X42 binoculars that are the first on this list with fieldflattening technology.

 

[Steve O]

I went from EL 10x42 to NL 12x42. I was not expecting much of an upgrade. I was pleasantly surprised with the upgraded view and was blown away by the updated ergonomics.

I can’t give you a birder review with a lot of fluff. All I can say is with those NLs I was able to positively identify the relocated desert ram in my avatar I had lost for three days at close to 2.5 miles. They are worth their weight in gold to me.