Paper tune overrated for whitetail hunting?

[Blake C]

Hard to swallow pills inbound. . . If a prospective bow hunter can’t get consistent tears, that isn’t a fletching contact or rest malfunction issue, they have no business going in the field with bow in hand until they can, and then broadhead tune their bow.

I agree with [mention]Billy Goat [/mention]that the overwhelming majority of penetration issues are from lack of tuning.

Tuning bows isn’t hard. Paper tune with a fletched shaft at 7 -10 feet. Then you can bareshaft tune to 20ish yards (optional). Finally broadhead tune it to 60.

I think going straight to broadheads from paper is a little faster than the bareshaft route. You’re going to make the same adjustments with broadheads as you do with bareshafts. And bareshafts are even more critical of form imperfections than broadheads. For the vast majority of hunters, paper then broadhead tuning is all they need.


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I edited it. I should have proof read before posting. I meant "Can't " not can. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Lol

 

[Billy Goat]

All the time. If your have clean bare shaft flight and you have to bump you center shot over 1/16 or 1/32 to bring those broadheads into your field points then you changing your tune.

Have you confirmed that the bareshaft flight is off after you do that?

 

[Beendare]

I wont take my bow out of tune to shoot a particular Broadhead. Unfortunately that is what some people when they "Broadhead tune"

We didn't disagree on much...but that^ statement we do.

So what is happening when a BH tipped arrow is not impacting with a FP? First the assumption needs to be that the BH is assembled PERFECTLY- that it has perfect concentricity....which is the problem in many of the, "I can't get BH's to fly " cases I've seen. That alignment is very important.

Back to what happens; If the arrow is coming out of the bow slightly Cockeyed [scientific term] and not perfectly aligned, the BH will catch air and vector it off line. The FP's, they don't catch as much air- harder to detect. In fact, the more forgiving BH's and Mech heads don't catch as much air- thus it makes them more forgiving. There is degrees of this- typically short small heads are more forgiving.

So IF A BH TIPPED ARROW is not hitting with FP's- All of your arrows are out of tune...you only see it with the BH tipped arrow.

 

[Trial153]

Have you confirmed that the bareshaft flight is off after you do that?

I have several times, more than several times actually. Is it always no measurable? no, however it will be in varying degree depending on the amount or displacement from the field point impact.

Take two different broadhead styles and shoot groups with them verse a field point and if it’s not within your margin of error you will have to “broadhead tune” to different degrees for each.
which is correct? Which is tuned? Is one tuned more than the other?

IF you started with perfect arrow flight you are now changing that flight to compensate for the aerodynamics of the broadhead.

 

[tipsntails7]

I would say paper tuning does tend to be overrated, but that's not an indictment of tuning in general.

Paper tuning is just a starting point toward the ultimate goal (for a hunter) of getting broadheads to land alongside field points. A well-tuned bow allows you to switch between practice mode (field points) and game mode (broadheads) without adjusting your sight, confirms that your arrow is flying straight right off the bow, confirms that you have sufficient fletching to steer your broadheads, and minimizes the effects of less-than-perfect shot execution during the moment of truth.

Paper tuning is a good starting point to get in the ballpark and can be done at close range indoors. Bareshaft tuning is a good intermediate step to confirm/refine your tune at distance and saves wear on your target because you're not shooting broadheads. But those two methods are both optional and can be skipped with no harm done. Broadhead tuning (shooting BH alongside FP at distance then adjusting your bow until they group together) is the ultimate test.

While its true that the closer your shots are, the less being out-of-tune will hurt you, hunters should still treat broadhead tuning as mandatory IMO.

Agree with this.

Paper tuning is not the end all.

But having a properly tuned bow is certainly not overrated.

 

[Billy Goat]

which is correct? Which is tuned? Is one tuned more than the other?

This is a big part of the question really.

Target bows are tuned different than a hunting bow. Shaft selection in my opinion should be different as well, because a weaker spine can fly fine in a target setup whereas a broadhead on the front of a noodle can be more of an issue. Heck I know target archers that tune for a certain paper tear because they know thats what produces the best results, so for that scenario, the setup is "tuned" for them.

For hunting, we are generally speaking about a setup that is going to be putting a broadhead with a field point, but that isn't always the best for a group tune. A group tune you usually pull the bow slightly out of tune to give a bias to the archers form that creates a more consistent setup.

I can't personally think of a time where broadhead tuning after bareshaft tuning resulted in movement that moved the bareshafts out of impact with field points, but there could be a few instances I guess where it happens.

I also know TG laughs about tuning broadheads to field points. To him, its a hunting bow, and he is just shooting broadheads out of it, so he doesn't care what a field point does. But most people are shooting one bow, and want to go between FP's and BH's without adjusting so they have confidence the arrow is going to land the same as it did practicing all summer.

To me, tuning for a hunting bow, is getting the arrow flying as straight as possible from the launch. Generally bareshaft at 20ish yards, followed by broadheads at 45-65 yards tuning for same impact with field points is going to do that. Like I said, I haven't seen where a broadhead changes things to where another tuning process would be out except for group tuning.

The exception possibly being large broadheads that do create more drag, so they actually launch slightly high, but for what I have played with that is so minute its lost in the noise of a group, except for a shooting machine and then its still so minut it's not a factor, unless maybe at 100 yards.

I guess my point is in theory, yes maybe just slightly out of tune. But in an archers hand, undetectable. I can't see how a L/R would be out of tune with a field point, yet works with BH's.

 

[WI in the west]

I definatly dont think its over rated but i do think it can also mess peoples confidence up putting to much weight on it. Before i knew tuni g was a thing in my high school days, i bought a mathews z7 eyeballed a whisker biscuit on it slapped a $30 3 pin sight on it. Shot a few dozen shots to sight it in. Screwed some muzzy broad heads on adjusted the sight the 6 inches it was off from not being tuned and killed deer with it just fine.
I absolutely wouldnt advise that because luck certainly factored into it but it did kill shit. Ive also chased the perfect tear and would spin in circles.
Its a great thing that all serious archers should learn or tinker woth but its not the end all in my opinion

 

[Trial153]

This is a big part of the question really.

Target bows are tuned different than a hunting bow. Shaft selection in my opinion should be different as well, because a weaker spine can fly fine in a target setup whereas a broadhead on the front of a noodle can be more of an issue. Heck I know target archers that tune for a certain paper tear because they know thats what produces the best results, so for that scenario, the setup is "tuned" for them.

For hunting, we are generally speaking about a setup that is going to be putting a broadhead with a field point, but that isn't always the best for a group tune. A group tune you usually pull the bow slightly out of tune to give a bias to the archers form that creates a more consistent setup.

I can't personally think of a time where broadhead tuning after bareshaft tuning resulted in movement that moved the bareshafts out of impact with field points, but there could be a few instances I guess where it happens.

I also know TG laughs about tuning broadheads to field points. To him, its a hunting bow, and he is just shooting broadheads out of it, so he doesn't care what a field point does. But most people are shooting one bow, and want to go between FP's and BH's without adjusting so they have confidence the arrow is going to land the same as it did practicing all summer.

To me, tuning for a hunting bow, is getting the arrow flying as straight as possible from the launch. Generally bareshaft at 20ish yards, followed by broadheads at 45-65 yards tuning for same impact with field points is going to do that. Like I said, I haven't seen where a broadhead changes things to where another tuning process would be out except for group tuning.

The exception possibly being large broadheads that do create more drag, so they actually launch slightly high, but for what I have played with that is so minute its lost in the noise of a group, except for a shooting machine and then its still so minut it's not a factor, unless maybe at 100 yards.

I guess my point is in theory, yes maybe just slightly out of tune. But in an archers hand, undetectable. I can't see how a L/R would be out of tune with a field point, yet works with BH's.

A question that begs answering is this. Tune your bow to the highest degree of your satisfaction. Broadhead A shoots within your margin of error to the same point of impact as your field point. Broadhead B does not shoot to the same point of impact as your field point.
Why would you change your bow tune to accommodate the shortcomings of Broadhead B?

 

[Trial153]

We didn't disagree on much...but that^ statement we do.

So what is happening when a BH tipped arrow is not impacting with a FP? First the assumption needs to be that the BH is assembled PERFECTLY- that it has perfect concentricity....which is the problem in many of the, "I can't get BH's to fly " cases I've seen. That alignment is very important.

Back to what happens; If the arrow is coming out of the bow slightly Cockeyed [scientific term] and not perfectly aligned, the BH will catch air and vector it off line. The FP's, they don't catch as much air- harder to detect. In fact, the more forgiving BH's and Mech heads don't catch as much air- thus it makes them more forgiving. There is degrees of this- typically short small heads are more forgiving.

So IF A BH TIPPED ARROW is not hitting with FP's- All of your arrows are out of tune...you only see it with the BH tipped arrow.

Negative. Some broadheads are not designed and constructed well enough to shoot with a field point without implementing mechanical fixes ie tuning to make up for their shortcomings. That is a fact, and it's been proven when you take out human error out of equation and make actual measurements of the displacement and spread of the broadheads compared to field points.