Painless load development (mine)

[WestTN2288]

Was disappointed in the TMKs I ordered on sale. Turns out a powder change made all the difference. Would prefer not to use Varget for the .223 as I have other intentions for it, but oh well.

Is that as high as you can go with lever? It doesn’t get entertaining until the last little bit, and I would’ve thought you could go higher than that

 

[Castle Rock]

M

What OAL are you seating to? I’ve always used a 6” or so drop tube, is longer than that helpful?

My drop tube is 6 inches
Berger 80.5 , 25.4/
24 inch Tikka barrel
2208, 2.375”

 

[Bluumoon]

Is that as high as you can go with lever? It doesn’t get entertaining until the last little bit, and I would’ve thought you could go higher than that

Stated at my normal load for 77s, went up half grain (after poor groups) and was getting a little tightness on bolt lift at 26.6gr. Figured I’d change powder after wasting bullets on a couple different charges and based Forms advice at the beginning of the thread.

Really surprised that a powder change makes that big of a difference.

 

[Luked]

Have my first rifle I am going to give the @Formidilosus method a try.
My 243 With H4831sc and 100gr Hornady Interloc.
Loaded 3 rounds at Max45.5-46.0-46.5.
Slight swipe on the 45.5. Going to drop .5 and load 10 and shoot and see what I get.

 

[West2East]

I know I can test this all myself but I figured I would ask the question here. I read through this a while ago and have been keeping up with the updates. My question is, for a novice reloader, is there a need to get into neck tension yet? With my limited understanding, in order to control for neck tension you need the bushing dies and that's not something I have yet.
So for anyone with the first hand knowledge, what will the difference be, in group size, of ammo done with the typical RCBS dies sizing/seating vs. measuring and setting neck tension with bushings.
I'll be using RCBS dies to bump the shoulder/size. I also have access to a Lee FCD that I'm on the fence about needing, based on my research.
FWIW Its on a 300wsm and plan to load 180 gr AB. Currently, the gun is shooting Trophy Grade ammo with the 180's(Holy Crap is that expensive) at just above 2MOA(10 shot) so just trying to get below that.

Any input is welcomed.

 

[ThatDUDE]

I have been following this for a year now. I don’t worry about all the fancy gadgets anymore. I use regular full length dies from Hornady. I resize, prime, load, and go shoot.

This was my last group following this method for my 6 ARC.

 

[wind gypsy]

I know I can test this all myself but I figured I would ask the question here. I read through this a while ago and have been keeping up with the updates. My question is, for a novice reloader, is there a need to get into neck tension yet? With my limited understanding, in order to control for neck tension you need the bushing dies and that's not something I have yet.
So for anyone with the first hand knowledge, what will the difference be, in group size, of ammo done with the typical RCBS dies sizing/seating vs. measuring and setting neck tension with bushings.

I would expect zero proveable difference. If some dude with a 20# benchrest rig who is capable of shooting in the 0.1s tests it, maybe they can see a difference. Run of the mill hunting rifle I'd say its very unlikely.

I'll be using RCBS dies to bump the shoulder/size. I also have access to a Lee FCD that I'm on the fence about needing, based on my research.
FWIW Its on a 300wsm and plan to load 180 gr AB. Currently, the gun is shooting Trophy Grade ammo with the 180's(Holy Crap is that expensive) at just above 2MOA(10 shot) so just trying to get below that.

Any input is welcomed.

A FL die with adequate neck tension should do everything you need. To me the biggest negative is just overworking the brass a bit more. Basically just expect to have necks crack at fewer loadings or need to anneal sooner.

I've never crimped anything so have no input on value added there. My factory browning xbolt 300wsm shot that nosler factory 180 AB very well and did the same with 180 AB over H4350 in handloads.

 

[JF_Idaho]

@West2East

I thought this video was pretty eye opening on the consistency of a Forster FL sizer vs mandrel and/or bushing dies.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I know I can test this all myself but I figured I would ask the question here. I read through this a while ago and have been keeping up with the updates. My question is, for a novice reloader, is there a need to get into neck tension yet? With my limited understanding, in order to control for neck tension you need the bushing dies and that's not something I have yet.
So for anyone with the first hand knowledge, what will the difference be, in group size, of ammo done with the typical RCBS dies sizing/seating vs. measuring and setting neck tension with bushings.
I'll be using RCBS dies to bump the shoulder/size. I also have access to a Lee FCD that I'm on the fence about needing, based on my research.
FWIW Its on a 300wsm and plan to load 180 gr AB. Currently, the gun is shooting Trophy Grade ammo with the 180's(Holy Crap is that expensive) at just above 2MOA(10 shot) so just trying to get below that.

Any input is welcomed.

I doubt you'd see any measurable improvement, and it would take a lot of rounds to prove it. I use standard FL dies and polish my expander down to .002-3" below bullet diameter for a little more tension on hunting ammo because it may get knocked around, and I use graphite lube in the neck to prevent bullet weld. Here is an example of how meaningless I believe things like neck tension are to a load - I had 5 loaded rounds I needed to pull to diagnose a chambering issue so I loaded them back up and shot them in this 10 shot group. I also needed to check zero because I pulled the scope bases to install recoil pins. This ammo consisted of:
- 5 pcs of brass that were loaded for a couple weeks, then bullets pulled and reloaded with very little NT.
- 5 new pcs of brass with ~.004" interference fit.
- 5 pulled bullets of an old lot
- 5 new bullets from a new lot.

Shot the string as fast as I could load the mag and get settled back in. 90° day so mirage from the can continued to grow through the string. Shot prone off bipod and rear bag.

 

[HighUintas]

First rounds out of this Tikka 243 barrel. Tested a few powder charges. I'll probably get some more rounds of 108/h4350 through the barrel to get it stabilized and then load up 10 of the 112mb/h1000

 

[wind gypsy]

@West2East

I thought this video was pretty eye opening on the consistency of a Redding FL sizer vs mandrel and/or bushing dies.

*Forster FL sizers for the win! You can spec a larger neck dimension to have a Forster die honed to and avoid overworking the brass with them as well.

 

[JF_Idaho]

Fixed my above post where I said Redding.

Yes, Forster.

 

[HighUintas]

I ordered a forster die today. My cheapo Lee set was giving me 0.008 runout on a lot of rounds. They usually work pretty well but I guess the RGB set is code for trash. I took the expander out and found it sizes all the way down to 0.262 from 0.276 and puts 0.0025 runout on my case neck when sizing! My groups are good, but that may be because I tweaked them straight by hand after seating and measuring. What a pain in the ass process that is. I haven't tested it but I can't imagine 0.008 runout wouldn't have an affect. Either way, my OCD isn't having that.

Forsters neck ID is 0.265-0.266, so I figured that will probably fix it and maybe I'll get it honed at some point.

Going to see if the Lee seater I have will produce acceptable results in combo with the forster FL die.

 

[sveltri]

I ordered a forster die today. My cheapo Lee set was giving me 0.008 runout on a lot of rounds. They usually work pretty well but I guess the RGB set is code for trash. I took the expander out and found it sizes all the way down to 0.262 from 0.276 and puts 0.0025 runout on my case neck when sizing! My groups are good, but that may be because I tweaked them straight by hand after seating and measuring. What a pain in the ass process that is. I haven't tested it but I can't imagine 0.008 runout wouldn't have an affect. Either way, my OCD isn't having that.

Forsters neck ID is 0.265-0.266, so I figured that will probably fix it and maybe I'll get it honed at some point.

Going to see if the Lee seater I have will produce acceptable results in combo with the forster FL die.

 

[HighUintas]

I figure I probably couldn't shoot the difference. But at least my case necks won't get worked as much

 

[wind gypsy]

I ordered a forster die today. My cheapo Lee set was giving me 0.008 runout on a lot of rounds. They usually work pretty well but I guess the RGB set is code for trash. I took the expander out and found it sizes all the way down to 0.262 from 0.276 and puts 0.0025 runout on my case neck when sizing! My groups are good, but that may be because I tweaked them straight by hand after seating and measuring. What a pain in the ass process that is. I haven't tested it but I can't imagine 0.008 runout wouldn't have an affect. Either way, my OCD isn't having that.

Forsters neck ID is 0.265-0.266, so I figured that will probably fix it and maybe I'll get it honed at some point.

Going to see if the Lee seater I have will produce acceptable results in combo with the forster FL die.

I spec’d a Forster 6 creed die at .2685, ended up being too big for alpha brass but good for others.

 

[HighUintas]

I spec’d a Forster 6 creed die at .2685, ended up being too big for alpha brass but good for others.

Alpha brass has thinner necks? I was thinking of doing 0.2685 at some point based on my loaded OD of .2725

 

[wind gypsy]

Alpha brass has thinner necks? I was thinking of doing 0.2685 at some point based on my loaded OD of .2725

Yes, thinner than lapua, sig, and Norma in 6 creed at least

 

[Lawnboi]

Alpha brass has thinner necks? I was thinking of doing 0.2685 at some point based on my loaded OD of .2725

I had to drop 2 thou off the bushing I was using for lapua. Ended up using a .266 if I remember right.

 

[HighUintas]

I had to drop 2 thou off the bushing I was using for lapua. Ended up using a .266 if I remember right.

I annealed my Virgin brass and put some graphite on the inside of the neck before sizing it and loading it last night with my cheapo Lee die. I usually don't do that with Virgin brass, and I can't remember if I did that with my Virgin 6.5 CM starline brass, but I don't think I did. There was still up to 0.002 run out on the case neck after sizing, but the loaded bullet runout wasn't anymore than 0.004-0.005, so it was much better for my ocd.

However, I don't think it matters.
About 50 shots through it today just trying to get it stabilized before finding a load for hunting in October. The left/right stringing is shooter error too. Had a pretty poor rest and was shooting quickly as I could.



I did get my forster die in the mail today. Man is it a big difference from from Lee dies. I sized one fired case and it was smooth as butter and had immeasurable runout after sizing. I'm looking forward to using it more.