Painless load development (mine)

[philcox]

Yet another day of depressing reality. 10 round groups from my half MOA guaranteed barrels, both over 1.5 MOA (300 WM hand load, and 7PRC 180 ELDM Factory)

Some of that may have been shooter fatigue, as I pumped about 40 rounds in 1.5hr????

Sigh … I guess the real question is, are these sub 2 MOA guns in the hands of a sub-MOA shooter OR 2 sub-MOA guns in the hands of a sub 2 MOA shooter? Looks like I need to find a verified sub-MOA shooter to find out! @Formidilosus what are you doing next weekend

 

[Marbles]

Measuring cases is easy. Knowing how long they cut the neck in your chamber, which is what really determines if you need to trim yet, requires a more specialized approach. Not mixing brands of brass will make your loading simpler.

I misunderstood. Taking calipers to every case is annoying, and I thought that was what you were talking about because I'm a little dense at times.

I'll just stick with SAAMI spec and trim if above that.

 

[TimberHunter]

Yet another day of depressing reality. 10 round groups from my half MOA guaranteed barrels, both over 1.5 MOA (300 WM hand load, and 7PRC 180 ELDM Factory)

Some of that may have been shooter fatigue, as I pumped about 40 rounds in 1.5hr????

Sigh … I guess the real question is, are these sub 2 MOA guns in the hands of a sub-MOA shooter OR 2 sub-MOA guns in the hands of a sub 2 MOA shooter? Looks like I need to find a verified sub-MOA shooter to find out! @Formidilosus what are you doing next weekend


View attachment 671068

View attachment 671071

Do you have any other guns that you shoot at or below MOA? When you are pulling the trigger and aiming, are your crosshairs moving at all?

Keep in mind those are big bullets going fast and recoil is very real for shooters, despite what a lot of people say, shooting big bullets fast out of any hunting weight rifle can be tricky


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[Juan_ID]

Just got some 73 eld’s and figured I’d load some up to see how they did in this 223. picked 23.5gr of xbr and seated bullet to just under tikka mag length. Shot over my pack with a rear rest, about as painless as it gets.

 

[TimberHunter]

Just got some 73 eld’s and figured I’d load some up to see how they did in this 223. picked 23.5gr of xbr and seated bullet to just under tikka mag length. Shot over my pack with a rear rest, about as painless as it gets.
View attachment 671643

Good group!

So I’ve been kicking this around and maybe Form can provide some insight. Reloading can be really simple, many people confirming on this thread.

But why has reloading been looked upon as almost witchcraft, requiring a high level of difficult steps to find a good load? If it is just this simple, where did reloading get this stigma that it is very difficult?

Are the barrels just getting much better and as a result, load “development” doesn’t really matter in today’s world?


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[Castle Rock]

Good group!

So I’ve been kicking this around and maybe Form can provide some insight. Reloading can be really simple, many people confirming on this thread.

But why has reloading been looked upon as almost witchcraft, requiring a high level of difficult steps to find a good load? If it is just this simple, where did reloading get this stigma that it is very difficult?

Are the barrels just getting much better and as a result, load “development” doesn’t really matter in today’s world?


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We used to shoot Remingtons and Winchesters, now we shoot tikkas
Using bullets with a secant ogive like sierras and the Hornady 73 is easy but VLDs take a lot more work

Tikka 223, 23.7 of 8208, 77 TMK
First group out of a brand new tikka

 

[Juan_ID]

Good group!

So I’ve been kicking this around and maybe Form can provide some insight. Reloading can be really simple, many people confirming on this thread.

But why has reloading been looked upon as almost witchcraft, requiring a high level of difficult steps to find a good load? If it is just this simple, where did reloading get this stigma that it is very difficult?

Are the barrels just getting much better and as a result, load “development” doesn’t really matter in today’s world?


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While I’m a fairly new reloader so can’t say for sure but in my experience it just seems people can’t help but make things harder than they need to be. I have only been loading for about 6 or 7 years so still fairly “green” and in that time have reloaded for 1 Walmart rem700 1 $300 savage 2 low end bergara’s and 5 tikka’s, all have shot under 1” easily. And by easy I mean just working up to max(ish) powder charges and rolling with it.

I’ve done ladder “tests” and seating depth “tests” thinking they were necessary. I’ve also wondered if I should switch out my $40 hornady or rcbs dies for “the nice ones” but in the end didn’t figure it was worth the squeeze. I’ve never had to switch powders primers or bullets because they “didn’t work” in my rifle. 95% of the projectiles have been hornady eld’s, along with some sierras, I have also shot berger but those days are likely long gone. The eld’s I’ve shot have grouped well and killed even better at the ranges I hunt at. These days I try to keep it simple as I don’t enjoy sitting at the bench as much as I did when I first stated.

 

[Marbles]

Good group!

So I’ve been kicking this around and maybe Form can provide some insight. Reloading can be really simple, many people confirming on this thread.

But why has reloading been looked upon as almost witchcraft, requiring a high level of difficult steps to find a good load? If it is just this simple, where did reloading get this stigma that it is very difficult?

Are the barrels just getting much better and as a result, load “development” doesn’t really matter in today’s world?


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Variation induced by statistically insignificant sample sizes have probably lead some people to erroneous conclusions.

OCD.

Trying to "buy" results with time in the reloading room rather than time on the range.

A lack of scientific method and much just being passed down wisdom. This is made worse by appeal to authority.

You see the same thing in archery. People worry about things that don't matter.

 

[gman82001]

Good group!

So I’ve been kicking this around and maybe Form can provide some insight. Reloading can be really simple, many people confirming on this thread.

But why has reloading been looked upon as almost witchcraft, requiring a high level of difficult steps to find a good load? If it is just this simple, where did reloading get this stigma that it is very difficult?

Are the barrels just getting much better and as a result, load “development” doesn’t really matter in today’s world?


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I think a lot of it has to do with pre internet days and you had to learn from someone or read and teach yourself.

Still so many old fuddy type people out there doing it that truly believe there’s only one way and it’s best to waste a ton of components working up from well below max.

Plus so many people are trying to shoot super tiny groups rather than good consistent plenty good for hunting type groups, this was where I was until a year or so ago now I’d rather find something fast that is consistent and lets me load a ton up and go shooting.

 

[Formidilosus]

Checked zero the other day for the 6XC that started this thread after putting the suppressor back on. 900’ish rounds on this barrel, no cleaning. Myself and two others shot it.

Mine-


#2



#3-




Composite-





Checking zero offsets today for some of the ammo for it-


108gr ELD-M-



115gr DTAC-



103gr ELD-X-

 

[philcox]

Do you have any other guns that you shoot at or below MOA? When you are pulling the trigger and aiming, are your crosshairs moving at all?

Keep in mind those are big bullets going fast and recoil is very real for shooters, despite what a lot of people say, shooting big bullets fast out of any hunting weight rifle can be tricky


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Seems that everything is sub-2 MOA on 10-20 shot groups. I get a bunch of groups that are sub MOA for 3 to even 5, but after that, they alway seem to open up. I am going to go to shooting a 5 shot group, then rest a bit and shoot another 5, and repeat until 20 rounds. Will see if that tightens groups up. If not, then I know that my rifles + the shooter are sub 2MOA systems, and will adjust as necessary while hunting. For Elk, should not be an issue, as my ocular effective range (eye are not the best, and I don't high power scopes) will be more limiting than my trigger ability or the rifle. For Deer, my trigger will likely be the "weakest link"

 

[TimberHunter]

Seems that everything is sub-2 MOA on 10-20 shot groups. I get a bunch of groups that are sub MOA for 3 to even 5, but after that, they alway seem to open up. I am going to go to shooting a 5 shot group, then rest a bit and shoot another 5, and repeat until 20 rounds. Will see if that tightens groups up. If not, then I know that my rifles + the shooter are sub 2MOA systems, and will adjust as necessary while hunting. For Elk, should not be an issue, as my ocular effective range (eye are not the best, and I don't high power scopes) will be more limiting than my trigger ability or the rifle. For Deer, my trigger will likely be the "weakest link"

If it’s a round count issue, I’m wondering if the mirage from the barrel is effecting your scope and POI? Try the 5 shot groups like you’re saying


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[Helislacker]

Loaded my first rounds and shot them today. I started with a 77gr TMK and some Hornady brass, then worked my way up from 25gr of lever to 25.5gr to 26gr - all loaded at 2.26 COAL. Almost everything went well and it shot just as well as my factory 73gr ELDM’s. I was sitting at about 2780 fps with 25gr and 2830 with the 26gr.

However, there was an issue where my magnetospeed recorded 4007and 4003 fps for two of rounds. I’m assuming it was due to a magnetospeed issue, as I had the sensitivity at 11 accidentally. That said, is there any possibility i seated the rounds incorrectly or possibly put in too much powder to get that result? I didn’t notice any obvious pressure signs or deviations in the brass, nor any obvious damage to the rifle. That said, I’m concerned about what I could have done to have caused that - assuming it wasn’t a magnetospeed issue. Any idea? Is it even possible to load a 77gr .223 that fast within the limited case capacity?

 

[Castle Rock]

Crony error

 

[TimberHunter]

Crony error

I would agree. But I wonder how a magneto would have an error? It seems like one of the hardest chronos to get an error from


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[philcox]

Does anyone in this thread, other than me, shoot anything but a 77g TMK? (It's a joke, but feels like a reality)

 

[willfrye027]

Does anyone in this thread, other than me, shoot anything but a 77g TMK? (It's a joke, but feels like a reality)

I’m not going to spend that kind of money for a high volume practice load, I’m shooting creedmoor sports 75gr BTHP. If I decide to hunt with this rifle I’ll buy some 77tmks at that point

 

[rabbithuntr]

Just loaded up some blemished 75 elds last night


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[Juan_ID]

Does anyone in this thread, other than me, shoot anything but a 77g TMK? (It's a joke, but feels like a reality)

Yes, 73 eldm’s which actually shoot slightly better than the tmk’s out of my rifle. The 75 bthp’s shoot real good too but I’ll pay the 10 cent premium for a little more “action” on rock chucks.

 

[carsonkeys]

Finally got a decent day to get out and shoot. I was greatly overthinking how I’d know which load was best, but the groups told me everything.

Up to this point I’ve reloaded and shot 37 rounds total (read ever). 7 to get on paper and the remaining 30 grouping three different loads.

My go-to shooting spot is several miles back an unmaintained road that’s currently got 4’ of snow on it. Going to load up another 20 and go stretch the legs this spring when it melts!