Painless load development (mine)

[rabbithuntr]

[mention]Formidilosus [/mention] would you change anything loading for an ar-15, crimping or cleaning? Brass from my suppressed ar is super dirty.
Thanks


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[Formidilosus]

[mention]Formidilosus [/mention] would you change anything loading for an ar-15, crimping or cleaning? Brass from my suppressed ar is super dirty.
Thanks


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Crimp it, wipe it off.

 

[rabbithuntr]

Thanks


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[RussDXT]

Crimp it, wipe it off.

Is there any downside to crimping all .223 if you have multiple .223 bolt and gas scoped rifles?

 

[Formidilosus]

Is there any downside to crimping all .223 if you have multiple .223 bolt and gas scoped rifles?

Potentially it could cause a drop in precision, however I have all my 223 crimped for that reason.

 

[lak2004]

Form, working on a 127gr LRX load for my tikka 6.5 creedmoor. Book max for h4350 from hodgdon is 42.3 but from Barnes it's 40.4. which do you trust?
I loaded to 42.5 and didn't see any pressure signs pushing in the 2850 fps range. Should I load a few at 42.5 and start again?

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[General RE LEE]

I think a lot of people, myself included, spend a lot of time and components trying to get the smallest groups at 100 yards.

I’ve had very good results on steel out to 600 yards with handloads that group right below 1 MOA at 100 yards. Especially if I have a good quality bullet and low SD/ES numbers.

Since I’m primarily a hunter and not a competitive bench or PRS shooter, I’ll stop development once I get a good load that has appropriate velocity and no pressure.

I’d rather spend more time working on my shooting vs getting OCD about 100 yard group sizes.

Hunters, don’t waste too much time trying to get the smallest groups. There usually isn’t as much return on investment.

 

[Preda8or]

Just to make sure I understand, The powder Charge doesn't matter as long as there are no pressure signs?

 

[ToolMann]

Just to make sure I understand, The powder Charge doesn't matter as long as there are no pressure signs?

Pretty much. "Pressure Signs" can be deceiving too. Recently started loading for a new 6.5 I got my son (my favorite gun to shoot). Thought I was getting swipe marks on brass. Bolt lift was OK. Looked at an unfired dummy round I had chambered, same marks. I started loading a few years ago and the guy helping me taught me the OCW method. Started using the method in this thread and saved a ton of OCD headaches. All 4 rifles I load for are great to 600, if I call the wind correctly, which 600 is the furthest range I have access too. Best thing I ever did was get away from 3 shot groups and .3 grain ladders.

 

[Preda8or]

After reloading for 25 years trying different reloading methods, this is so hard to wrap my mind around, but I will give it a shot, pun intended.

 

[Tell]

The powder I know is going to work great isn’t available, so I bought a few different powders to test. I tried this method, and one seemed to perform better over ten shots, but I’m using a 6 power scope. What I want to know is if there is a benefit to using a higher power scope for this test? If I’m not trying to spot impacts, would I have a more accurate understanding of how the load is performing if I was able to know that my crosshairs were more exactly in the same place each time I shot?

 

[ToolMann]

The powder I know is going to work great isn’t available, so I bought a few different powders to test. I tried this method, and one seemed to perform better over ten shots, but I’m using a 6 power scope. What I want to know is if there is a benefit to using a higher power scope for this test? If I’m not trying to spot impacts, would I have a more accurate understanding of how the load is performing if I was able to know that my crosshairs were more exactly in the same place each time I shot?

Not at 100 yards. 6x is plenty in my opinion.

 

[ddowning]

Not at 100 yards. 6x is plenty in my opinion.

6X is plenty to shoot a decent group as ID in this thread as aprox. 1 MOA. I have shot 1/2 MOA groups with a red dot and a 3x magifier. If you are trying to identify which load will shoot 3/8 moa for 10 shots vs 3/4 moa for ten shots, a 6X scope is not likely to allow that.

I have shot some great wallet groups with a 14x scope but from 14x to 20x and then from 20x to 24x and now at 36x the groups have consistently gotten smaller as magnification has gone up. I really think 30x or so is the point of highly diminishing returns in good conditions. In mirage too much mag makes things look like pea soup.

That said, this thread is about finding a good enough load and not wasting time and money chasing it to the Nth degree. If you need a 2 MOA system and the load and 6x scope delivers that you are done. Go shoot.

 

[ddowning]

There is a lot of merit to this approach. Even in PRS I do not chase 1 hole groups. Brass, Barrels, and Bullets mostly make the group size, especially if you lump the chamber/thread/crown job into the barrel part of that.

Once you have a system that produces the needed precision for the task, you're done. You should then go use the system for what the intended purpose is.

In my experience, if you have the 3 B's and also the bedding and scope are good, you will have a gun that will shoot just about every load well.

There is merit to load development, but not the way most people do it. The only purpose is to proof the system and eliminate bad loads.

I like the price (the old price anyway) of Hornady bullets and still use them for hunting. I can usually shrink the group significantly by sorting or switching to Berger.

If you have good brass (Lapua, Alpha, ADG, Peterson) and Berger bullets it should be no problem for a book load to shoot MOA for 10 shots. If it will not, the problem is usually in the bedding, scope (or mount or rings), or chamber job. Fiddling with powder charge and seating depth will not magically fix that. I have had several scopes with a click or 2 wandering zero. That makes your group look a lot bigger than an optic that is rock solid.

In my experience, bad loads are typically bad bullets. Sometimes a powder or primer change will bring things around. If that doesn't solve the problem, call your gunsmith.

I am glad to see this stuff being pushed out there. You do not have to "develop a load" to shoot. There are very few bad loads if you use a known good book load. Check for pressure and make sure it shoots to your requirements (use large sample size testing). Done. Go kill stuff or win trophies.

 

[BryanL]

@Formidilosus Is there a good way to true velocity with only 200 yard ranges?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus Is there a good way to true velocity with only 200 yard ranges?

No. Only 10-20 shots over a legit chrono ( Magnetospeed, Lab Radar) and a known scope.

 

[waldo9190]

Curious if anyone sees much for sooty necks at/near max load? 54.2 grains of RS Hunter and 58.0 grains of H4831 both produced necks looking like cases fired closer to starting loads. VERY minor ejector wipe on either and bolt lift was normal.

I suppose I should add: 270 Win, 140 TGK, Starline brass, CCI 200.

 

[General RE LEE]

Curious if anyone sees much for sooty necks at/near max load? 54.2 grains of RS Hunter and 58.0 grains of H4831 both produced necks looking like cases fired closer to starting loads. VERY minor ejector wipe on either and bolt lift was normal.

I suppose I should add: 270 Win, 140 TGK, Starline brass, CCI 200.

Ramshot spherical powders burn a little dirty. I shoot Ramshot TAC and Hunter and haven’t paid close attention to soot on the necks but these powders leave considerable fouling in the bore.

 

[WayneKerr]

Add another believer to the list. Followed this method for two Tikkas, 270 and 300wm. Loaded one for each just under book max. No pressure signs. Loaded 20 for each, went shooting, and hot damn it works. Haven't chrono'd the loads yet, but the accuracy is totally acceptable for where and how I hunt. I'm done chasing small groups. I shot 10 round groups, and I'm totally fine with 10 rounds within 1-1.5 inches at 100 yards with minimal time between shots. That will get the job done for sure.

 

[woods89]

This is what a good barrel looks like!

I wanted load data for 130 TMK and H4350, as I have a lot of H4350 and the 130 TMK is going to be my hunting solution in this rifle for the foreseeable future. I shoot 140s at 41.8, so I started with 42, and shot one. Looked good so I loaded up one at 42.5. Also looked decent, so I loaded up a few more. This is 10 rounds at 42.5. 1.1 MOA. Off a backpack with a sleeping bag in it and a Pint sized Gamechanger for a rear bag.

However...... I'm getting more ejector swipe than I like, and just a bit of sticky bolt lift, especially with the ones that sit in a hot chamber just a bit. Having run loads on the edge of pressure before, I'm going to go back down to 42.0. With this barrels history with 140 EH, 140 BTHP, and 156 EH, I have very little doubt that I'll see the same at 42.0. I'll update after 10 of 42.0. This is all in Lapua brass, I know of others running considerably more powder, but I think the case capacity gets me here. As always, do your own workup!

Pardon a little bragging, but I have been really happy with this Hawk Hill barrel. It was a recommendation from the gunsmith who rebarreled this rifle, and he was not wrong.