Overpriced applications/tags. The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence.

[Chris in TN]

I love the adventure of hunting, but if you can't find adventure in your own state that's a you problem, not the state. If I were gonna spend the amount of money some of these guys spend on hunts I would just buy a side of beef then go on a really great hiking trip for one quarter the cost.

About that 'great hiking trip'.....Last year I learned that the best most affordable elk hunting experience in North America was to go - unarmed - a week before season opened. The hunting was great that week, until the other hunters showed up.

At some point hunting really becomes an almost entirely human sport. You're not man-against-beast. You're man-against-other-man racing to get to the beast.

At that point I'd rather just run the race the rest of the year and squirrel away some funds to 'win' that race by being the first to pay for a nice hunt on private land. Certainly that's impossible for sheep or mountain goats, etc, but for elk and deer, I'd halfway rather do my 'racing' here at home making some money to pay for exclusive access to game for a week.

YMMV, a lot, of course.

 

[FunkEyeMissed]

As a young guy that’s a relatively new MT resident and just getting to the point of deciding where to invest to build points out of state, I just can’t see how it’s worth it. If you live in any western state you have plenty of great opportunities for adventure at home, and if you’re an older guy that’s been there and done that in his state already, you can probably afford to book a hunt of your choice somewhere.

If you’re just getting into it and don’t have thousands of dollars to gamble for a chance at a good hunt every handful of years (or never), I think that money is better off saved for a dream trip like Alaska or something similar.

If I had a low-mid amount of points built up in a few states I’d probably be looking to burn them in the next few years though as I can see a lot of states changing their draw systems pretty dramatically in the next 7-10 years.

 

[Steve O]

I'll still go have adventures. I'm just done stacking up points. I'll use my points for a hunt that will take way less than what i have. After that I won't build them I'll just hunt 0 point hunts or build up a couple and stop until I'm ready to go again. I'm entirely done with Nevada though. A guy has to wait a decade to still have crap odds on a hunt that's no better than what you could get in a different state with low or no points.

I’ll reply to this one and do a little philosophizing as well…

One of the ways I use points is exactly that way; insurance to do a hunt when I have time; at least half the hunts I do I have way more points than the unit requires to draw. I’ll also cash them in to help my son or a friend draw a better unit or so I can hunt with them. It allows me plan and fit things in properly. This is why Montana’s new system infuriates me! There is no way to plan there. I had a pile of deer points saved so if I ever drew a Breaks sheep tag I’d make a combo out of it. Or to have a good reason to go take a look at it scouting in season rather than just scouting. It’s easier to justify a trip out west to hunt than it is just to scout.

As a Midwesterner who is not wealthy, I don’t see any other way to hunt all the species the west offers without partaking in the point game. I think one needs to be diversified in their approach as well. I have short, medium, and long term strategies in all the states out west and I am very flexible every year…sometimes long term ideas change and things get cashed in to make a cool experience that pops up a reality.

I’m a bit of an unusual case as I love sheep and sheep hunting and I’ll be gathering points in almost every state that offers NR sheep tags on other species as a by product/benefit until I don’t think I can do it any more. Then I’ll bust out all those other points/species I’ve accumulated in each based on what I can do physically.

I look at point systems just as I do raffle tickets; if you are going into it counting on a win, that is an awful strategy and almost always guarantees being severely disappointed. My money is going to a good cause whether I directly benefit from it or not.

I’ve been screwed over by the point systems many times, most recently in Wyoming but I’ve also had some incredible experiences because of them and those are what keeps me going.

I don’t think it is wise to deal in absolutes and we need to take advantage of opportunities each system provides and weigh the positives higher than the negatives.

The only state I don’t have much flexibility in; Nevada will be wonderful experience if I can ever get them to take any of my 20+ point piles!

 

[Mtndawger]

About that 'great hiking trip'.....Last year I learned that the best most affordable elk hunting experience in North America was to go - unarmed - a week before season opened. The hunting was great that week, until the other hunters showed up.

At some point hunting really becomes an almost entirely human sport. You're not man-against-beast. You're man-against-other-man racing to get to the beast.

At that point I'd rather just run the race the rest of the year and squirrel away some funds to 'win' that race by being the first to pay for a nice hunt on private land. Certainly that's impossible for sheep or mountain goats, etc, but for elk and deer, I'd halfway rather do my 'racing' here at home making some money to pay for exclusive access to game for a week.

YMMV, a lot, of course.

It’s a really good point about man against man. The race to the animals has become absolutely ridiculous. My intent with points has always been so I could hunt units that were less crowded more so than for trophy potential.

 

[BuckSmasher]

Very interesting thread and feel validated that other are experiencing what I am. Roughly 20 years ago, I bought in to the, 'apply, apply, apply!' mantra. I have drawn 3 tags.

New Mexico is the worst. Over $100+ every year for hunts that I would statistically only draw once every 150 years. Math isn't mathing but do I give up hope on a great tag? I used to try and get mediocre tags when I lived in Texas, that didn't work either. I think Idaho for a non-res must stink now too. Unless you just want one of the easier to get general areas.

I am not optimistic about the situation getting better. Hopefully I am pleasantly surprised.

IMO:
-Outfitter welfare needs to stop
-Most 'depradation' hunts need to stop
-Tag prices need to increase, not application fees.

 

[Elkangle]

Just Irish goodbye and bow out gracefully.

Don’t point out what other people have already been doing and ruin it for us.

Shhh !! Now everyone is gona put in for mid tier tags thinking everyone is gona drop to bottom tier tags after reading this thread...but after my post they are gona really have a game of witts and put there name in for the top tier tags !!!

 

[Elkangle]

All jokes aside this is a financial based issue, if you can afford the money to gamble then do it...just know your gambling and not investing

my opinion is to invest more then gamble, that ratio of how much will depend on each hunters position...start a "tag" account and contribute to it more then you contribute to the states...if you cant do that...your in for too many states

Everyone paints these hunts in different ways...everything is so "epic" online but the harsh reality is adventure is everywhere ! Nothing wrong with hunting backyards and close to home units..theres value in everything !

 

[CorbLand]

I pretty much have to hunt out of state, my home state is very hard to draw any tag. Elk, deer,sheep,antelope. Even turkey's getting to be impossible.

This is something that is not discussed enough and makes me laugh when people complain about western states change allocation and/or increase prices. Many of the residents aren’t flush with tags either.




This is what happens when every tag service, Instagram page and companies spends years convincing people that if your not hunting 5 states a year, your not a hunter. Epic Outdoors literally talks about having tags they don’t even hunt.

Make being a weekend warrior cool again.

 

[Serrano]

I started cutting some NR states/species and applications/points about 8 years ago.
The cost isn't worth the long odds. I used to apply for about 20 different hunts across 5 states. I'm down to 8 hunts across 3 states. Recent changes to cost vs odds have me thinking of cashing in some and abandoning some.

I can't complain, it was good about 20 years ago. I drew great elk tags in AZ, UT and NM on random long shots over 6 years. And it didn't take so many points for me to draw great WY deer and elk and another AZ elk tag.

Your odds will go up a little. You're welcome.

 

[RockAndSage]

Thinking about all of this some more, I'm curious how much of this is going to end up like a snake eating an egg - a big bulge that started with Covid and getting outside, and the wave of interest in hunting from shows and influencers that hit hard around then. Guys just continuing to apply until they burn their points in different states, but then won't apply again after they get drawn.

 

[Lawnboi]

Thinking about all of this some more, I'm curious how much of this is going to end up like a snake eating an egg - a big bulge that started with Covid and getting outside, and the wave of interest in hunting from shows and influencers that hit hard around then. Guys just continuing to apply until they burn their points in different states, but then won't apply again after they get drawn.

This is grand thinking but I’d bet many are applying because access is becoming difficult in their own state.

 

[bojangles808]

Its such a commitment for me having to fly in and hard to get a week off in the fall being a special ed teacher with a young family but I've always had the mindset to stack the points and worry about burning them later. I just think of it as a donation to conservation however now my problem is now with point creep and with double digit points in Nv AZ and Wy I have anxiety over when I do decide to pull the trigger that I'll be the idiot hiking around clueless without any real solo experience in the backcountry. So then I got in my head that I gotta go guided to "do the tag justice" bc of all the time and $ committed but looking at outfitted options the prices are wild. We as a family could do a whole lot of other cool things for 10k. Hoping when my kid grows up to maybe cut our teeth on some diy cow or youth hunts or something and make some memories before we cash in on premium tags but it's turned into a giant mind f*** now for me, almost want to just stick with points only for now to avoid having to make a premature irresponsible financial decision

 

[timekiller13]

I’m in the same boat. For the amount of money that I’m forking over every year for required license, preference points fees etc and then having a couple grand up front tag fees sitting on credit card is starting to sour me a little.

It’s funny that 10 years ago, I wasnt very financially stable and had to be savvy about saving up the money just to buy an OTC tag.

Now, I make plenty of money and can easily afford to buy several tags a year if I desired. But I’m getting to the point where I just don’t think it’s worth it.

My plan is to cash out the points I have in a couple states in the next 2 years and then after will buy landowner tags every couple years.

 

[ColoradoV]

I've had it. Every year it feels like there's price increases coupled with reduced odds of actually getting a tag. I've been applying in up to seven different states for over a decade now. I've had some decent luck and drawn a couple tags but if you look at the total amount of dollars I put into applying it feels disproportionate to the opportunities I've gotten. The states I haven't drawn in I find myself in no man's land. There's a handful of hunts I might be able to draw. Nothing that feels worth the dollars I've spent on it. I'm throwing the towel in on at least two states this year, maybe more. I'm very fortunate to have good opportunities in my home state. And I'm convinced now that my best use of time is to spend more days on less tags. All that to say if you're reading this and you're like me a decade ago. look at the total amount of dollars it might take you to have a chance at some of these hunts and maybe consider spending those dollars on gas to learn your own areas close to home better. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

I apply in 2 states.. Got out of the points hustle/game and don’t regret it at all.. Always said I can’t figure out how guys have enough time to scout and hunt more than one state.. Lots of guys must have no job and a bucket load of time/$$ to do the tags justice or hope for handouts, pay a finders fee, or maybe get lucky…. I can’t handle more than well just a handful of units but I scout 30+ days as that’s what it takes to find one solid deer these days.

Switched to putting my $$ into LO tags for one state and works great for me as well as the “inner circle” of guys I hunt around = lined up a couple more for myself and friends again this winter. Wife might disagree but in the end it’s cheaper than apply, apply, apply in all the western states. As well as I hunt every single year close to home where I can scout and gain points in the draw = priceless…

 

[Mtndawger]

Always said I can’t figure out how guys have enough time to scout and hunt more than one state.. Lots of guys must have no job and a bucket load of time/$$ to do the tags justice or hope for handouts, pay a finders fee, or maybe get lucky…. I can’t handle more than well just a handful of units but I scout 30+ days as that’s what it takes to find one solid deer these days.

Isn't that the truth!

 

[Weldor]

Not a Ding on NR's, but the usual ones I meet not all but most are taking a shot in the dark. Some from advice from friends others from family. Some just picking a spot. I try to scout all year, but I live here, so no travel or it's modest if I have another unit. So I can understand why some guys hire outfitters. The bad part about that is it's all public land and no exclusive private property like some other states, so you are going to deal with the public hunters while being guided. And believe me it's crowded now.

 

[Skerhunter]

I apply in 2 states.. Got out of the points hustle/game and don’t regret it at all.. Always said I can’t figure out how guys have enough time to scout and hunt more than one state.. Lots of guys must have no job and a bucket load of time/$$ to do the tags justice or hope for handouts, pay a finders fee, or maybe get lucky…. I can’t handle more than well just a handful of units but I scout 30+ days as that’s what it takes to find one solid deer these days.

Switched to putting my $$ into LO tags for one state and works great for me as well as the “inner circle” of guys I hunt around = lined up a couple more for myself and friends again this winter. Wife might disagree but in the end it’s cheaper than apply, apply, apply in all the western states. As well as I hunt every single year close to home where I can scout and gain points in the draw = priceless…

Most of the people I have met, do not even have the time to hunt one NR tag (only give themselves 3-5 days to hunt an area they haven’t even scouted).

For me it would be a waste to have multiple NR tags for the same species. I would rather spend a week scouting and two weeks hunting to fill my tag vs bouncing around different states trying to fill 3 tags with only 5 days to hunt for each.

10+ years ago NR hunts were a different game. Draw dates were different, tags were easier/more predictable to draw, and there were plenty of OTC/left over tags available.

 

[Lawnboi]

Its such a commitment for me having to fly in and hard to get a week off in the fall being a special ed teacher with a young family but I've always had the mindset to stack the points and worry about burning them later. I just think of it as a donation to conservation however now my problem is now with point creep and with double digit points in Nv AZ and Wy I have anxiety over when I do decide to pull the trigger that I'll be the idiot hiking around clueless without any real solo experience in the backcountry. So then I got in my head that I gotta go guided to "do the tag justice" bc of all the time and $ committed but looking at outfitted options the prices are wild. We as a family could do a whole lot of other cool things for 10k. Hoping when my kid grows up to maybe cut our teeth on some diy cow or youth hunts or something and make some memories before we cash in on premium tags but it's turned into a giant mind f*** now for me, almost want to just stick with points only for now to avoid having to make a premature irresponsible financial decision

Honestly you’d be better off making some friends with successful hunters and going and having a good time.

Someone can have a better hunt in a general unit that knows what they are doing than a mid to high point unit easily…..

 

[MuleyFever]

For me it would be a waste to have multiple NR tags for the same species. I would rather spend a week scouting and two weeks hunting to fill my tag vs bouncing around different states trying to fill 3 tags with only 5 days to hunt for each.

Don't get as many grip and grins for the Gram that way.

 

[CMF]

Always said I can’t figure out how guys have enough time to scout and hunt more than one state.. Lots of guys must have no job

Contract work